Are they too big to fall?
Post Reply
1 of 1
How does the Kap thing with Nike affect our relationship with them?
6,686 Views |
23 Replies |
Last: 5 yr ago by 88Fox
Way too big. Its the latest Yeti cooler, Keurig, etc "outrage".
These things crack me up. You'd starve or go naked if you applied a moral litmus test to everything.
Can't imagine it would.
It won't. Nike has used sweat shops for how long and people have boycotted how many times?
Nike has offices in 45 countries, outside of the U.S.
They've had sweatshops in China, Vietnam, Indonesia and Mexico. I read, a few years back,
that they were paying for child labor at 14 cents per hour in Indonesia. the BBC did a documentary
on child labor in Cambodia and Pakistan. It featured 6 girls who were working 7 days a week and 16 hr.
days.
The "Paradise Papers", a set of confidential electronic documents relating to offshore investment,
revealed that Nike used offshore companies to avoid taxes.
Nike has done well in getting big name athletes to endorse them and represent them. Kapernick
has been associated with them for some time. He just negotiated a new deal and it is probably a smart business move on their part, as they are targeting athletes and wanabes who will buy their products.
I think it would be best to avoid ANY type of friction that could cause student unrest and dissension in
the athletic department.
They've had sweatshops in China, Vietnam, Indonesia and Mexico. I read, a few years back,
that they were paying for child labor at 14 cents per hour in Indonesia. the BBC did a documentary
on child labor in Cambodia and Pakistan. It featured 6 girls who were working 7 days a week and 16 hr.
days.
The "Paradise Papers", a set of confidential electronic documents relating to offshore investment,
revealed that Nike used offshore companies to avoid taxes.
Nike has done well in getting big name athletes to endorse them and represent them. Kapernick
has been associated with them for some time. He just negotiated a new deal and it is probably a smart business move on their part, as they are targeting athletes and wanabes who will buy their products.
I think it would be best to avoid ANY type of friction that could cause student unrest and dissension in
the athletic department.
It won't affect it at all. The only way it could would be if Georgia fans refused to purchase UGA licensed Nike merchandise leading up to contract negotiations. This issue will be long gone by then.
I've mostly been interested in how this story will affect message boards. It is a sports story but it is also a political story. I really just wish companies only cared who I do business with and not who I vote for.
I've mostly been interested in how this story will affect message boards. It is a sports story but it is also a political story. I really just wish companies only cared who I do business with and not who I vote for.
I wonder if it is a smart business move. They could have quietly allowed the deal to expire and found someone else that might influence young black men to buy/wear expensive shoes.Buckdawger said:
...Nike has done well in getting big name athletes to endorse them and represent them. Kapernick
has been associated with them for some time. He just negotiated a new deal and it is probably a smart business move on their part, as they are targeting athletes and wanabes who will buy their products...
Nike obviously knew this would cause a great deal of controversy and has placed a bet that this is the best thing for their brand. The calculus has to be that the increase in sales to this demographic will be greater than the decrease in sales to offended people. I suspect that Nike is wrong but we will find out in a year or so.
I would love to see the demographic data on Nike's existing sales and for the sportswear apparel industry in general.
Not that they care 2 sheets about my money, but I'll spend it elsewhere in the future.
I doubt what they did will have much effect on their business.
I doubt what they did will have much effect on their business.
Dirtydawgs said:
Are they too big to fall?
I am confused. What about Kaepernick's endorsement + Ad campaign with Nike impacts UGA's relationship with Nike?
And Nike is not failing at all. They are #1 in Market share by a wide margin.
The last 2 pairs of Nikes I bought were a piece of crap and fell apart within a few weeks. My Brooks or Salomon last me for a year. My Nike UGA polo fell apart at the shoulders after a season. My view of the product quality has been going downhill over the last few years. They lost me before all of this K(r)ap.
I'm of the opinion companies should stay out of political or polarizing topics. Nike has received a fair amount of publicity, but have also received a fair amount of negative backlash. Will it be worth it in a year? Time will tell. I'm going to guess no.
My question is why risk it? Nike doesn't make anything so exceptional that people can't get it from someone else.
My question is why risk it? Nike doesn't make anything so exceptional that people can't get it from someone else.
We'd need to know about Nike's margins and sales figures to know for sure but I suspect it has to do with shoes. Nike was selling a lot of shoes between $100 and $200 to young people with "urban" sensibilities/style. Based on Nike's well documented mfg costs, the profit margin has to be huge both in percentage and dollars per unit. There is now a lot of competition in this demographic for high end clothing dollars that didn't exist 15 years ago. Adidas and Under Armor has eaten into their market share and kids(or their parents) in this demographic can only afford so many pair of $200 shoes.PurpleBrave said:
I'm of the opinion companies should stay out of political or polarizing topics. Nike has received a fair amount of publicity, but have also received a fair amount of negative backlash. Will it be worth it in a year? Time will tell. I'm going to guess no.
My question is why risk it? Nike doesn't make anything so exceptional that people can't get it from someone else.
I imagine that the risk looks like a good bet if Nike believes that they can get influencers to promote their brand as being the premier "justice" brand.
So the questions are:
How many visors and polo shirts equal one pair of high price shoes in profit?
How many visors and polo shirts will they not sell vs. shoes they will sell?
How long will "offended" parties care about this?
How long will their brand be viewed as being "pro-justice"?
PurpleBrave said:
I'm of the opinion companies should stay out of political or polarizing topics. Nike has received a fair amount of publicity, but have also received a fair amount of negative backlash. Will it be worth it in a year? Time will tell. I'm going to guess no.
My question is why risk it? Nike doesn't make anything so exceptional that people can't get it from someone else.
My educated guess is that the "amount" of negative backlash is actually just a Vocal Minority of the populace.
That the majority of American consumers actually view Kaepernick, or Kaepernick's 1st Amendment Freedoms, in a positive light. And that the majority of American consumers fall on the opposite side of the issue from a deeply unpopular POTUS (who helps publicize the issue Nike is aiming to profit off of). The Polling supports this.
The only way Nike executes this Business Venture is if the Positive Backlash outweighs the Negative Backlash. In other words, if it is 'Worth' it.
I think people are erroneously looking at Stock reports from a 36-hour window. Those Stock trends are not Nike-specific. They are Market-specific. Under Armour, Adidas, etc all experienced losses that day. Because of the turmoil and unrest being placed on USA trade deals. Nike obviously stands to lose the most from a termination of NAFTA.
Many polls are done on social media. That isn't an accurate representation of what society actually believes. A quick google search shows as many opposed to the protests as supporting...and that's with google likely skewing the results. Conclusion is that it's polarizing. 50/50 to 60/40 one way or the other. Even if it's 75/25, that's a large percentage of their base they're alienating. Another interesting aspect is Nike pulls this right after the league extends their contract 8 years. Gotta believe the NFL isn't too happy about it.
Nike is going to be just fine in the long run, but large companies make mistakes. Sadly, it's just one more thing politicized.
Nike is going to be just fine in the long run, but large companies make mistakes. Sadly, it's just one more thing politicized.
He conflated issues.PurpleBrave said:
Many polls are done on social media. That isn't an accurate representation of what society actually believes. A quick google search shows as many opposed to the protests as supporting...and that's with google likely skewing the results. Conclusion is that it's polarizing. 50/50 to 60/40 one way or the other. Even if it's 75/25, that's a large percentage of their base they're alienating. Another interesting aspect is Nike pulls this right after the league extends their contract 8 years. Gotta believe the NFL isn't too happy about it.
Nike is going to be just fine in the long run, but large companies make mistakes. Sadly, it's just one more thing politicized.
Obviously, people support the 1st Amendment. I'm also not sure of a time Trump has said "I disagree with the 1st Amendment."
If kneeling at professional football games has become a statement in favor of the 1st Amendment we need to inform the players. I'm not sure they know that from hearing the reasons why they are doing it.
Regardless, the entire ad is such a joke anyway. Kap really "gave" up everything by kneeling. No, he opted out of a NFL contract that he already had. Further, it's hard to give up everything when a fortune 50 company is literally paying you to do nothing different than you were doing.
That said, I don't care about it one way or the other. I'm still buying Nike stuff. This will be forgotten about in months.
I really believe that Kapernick has become the new hero of many Afro-Americans, so why not keep him?88Fox said:I wonder if it is a smart business move. They could have quietly allowed the deal to expire and found someone else that might influence young black men to buy/wear expensive shoes.Buckdawger said:
...Nike has done well in getting big name athletes to endorse them and represent them. Kapernick
has been associated with them for some time. He just negotiated a new deal and it is probably a smart business move on their part, as they are targeting athletes and wanabes who will buy their products...
Nike obviously knew this would cause a great deal of controversy and has placed a bet that this is the best thing for their brand. The calculus has to be that the increase in sales to this demographic will be greater than the decrease in sales to offended people. I suspect that Nike is wrong but we will find out in a year or so.
I would love to see the demographic data on Nike's existing sales and for the sportswear apparel industry in general.
Nike is literally attempting to profit off of racial division. That is reprehensible in my opinion.
I'm not buying their stuff. Capitalists vote with their dollars.
Kaepernick's protest was borne out of a lie ("Hands up don't shoot"). He and his gf/fiance are both active in the Black Lives Matters movement which is one of several organizations advancing socialism here in the US. Their ideology was responsible for 100+ million deaths in the 20th century. I'm not going to willingly participate in commerce with anyone or anything that promotes socialism.
Socialism is easily the worst idea in the last several hundred years. It floors me that we have so many people in this country that believe it is "just", "fair", or cool.
I'm not buying their stuff. Capitalists vote with their dollars.
Kaepernick's protest was borne out of a lie ("Hands up don't shoot"). He and his gf/fiance are both active in the Black Lives Matters movement which is one of several organizations advancing socialism here in the US. Their ideology was responsible for 100+ million deaths in the 20th century. I'm not going to willingly participate in commerce with anyone or anything that promotes socialism.
Socialism is easily the worst idea in the last several hundred years. It floors me that we have so many people in this country that believe it is "just", "fair", or cool.
Buckdawger said:I really believe that Kapernick has become the new hero of many Afro-Americans, so why not keep him?88Fox said:I wonder if it is a smart business move. They could have quietly allowed the deal to expire and found someone else that might influence young black men to buy/wear expensive shoes.Buckdawger said:
...Nike has done well in getting big name athletes to endorse them and represent them. Kapernick
has been associated with them for some time. He just negotiated a new deal and it is probably a smart business move on their part, as they are targeting athletes and wanabes who will buy their products...
Nike obviously knew this would cause a great deal of controversy and has placed a bet that this is the best thing for their brand. The calculus has to be that the increase in sales to this demographic will be greater than the decrease in sales to offended people. I suspect that Nike is wrong but we will find out in a year or so.
I would love to see the demographic data on Nike's existing sales and for the sportswear apparel industry in general.
From a business standpoint, you wouldn't keep him if you didn't want to cause controversy or alienate a large number of your customers. Nike has decided that it will be more profitable over the long haul to cause controversy. We will find out if they are correct in a year.
Their customer base and investors will be virtually unaffected. Any short term chaos is just short term.
They haven't really alienated anyone but the folks who don't buy their stuff anyhow.
Racial division? Again, not really, because the people REALLY mad aren't buying Nike anyhow. *See bullet #2.
Its a genius PR campaign. They have everyone talking about Nike. Why do folks think a for profit needs to make people "feel good"? Do you feel good about buying Adidas? If so...why? Any idea their politics? Nope.
They haven't really alienated anyone but the folks who don't buy their stuff anyhow.
Racial division? Again, not really, because the people REALLY mad aren't buying Nike anyhow. *See bullet #2.
Its a genius PR campaign. They have everyone talking about Nike. Why do folks think a for profit needs to make people "feel good"? Do you feel good about buying Adidas? If so...why? Any idea their politics? Nope.
1.a Police offficers have tough jobs that are NECESSARY and overall help sustain society. They face very real dangers where reactions to quickly turning violent situations is a relaity. And they are asked to deal with way too many circumstances where they have to consider both that and relations with regular community members.
1.b I didn't agree with the method of protest simply because I felt that the point of it would be laregly missed and could change unexpectedly, which it has.
2. I still respected the players that did it early on for taking the risk that they did, evidenced in their still not being signed.
3. This is definitely a marketing move, and not true politics. Nike has had a littany of issues with diversity and labor issues against marginalized populations domestically and abroad. Nobody is perfect and Nike isn't trying to have the moral high ground. They are not moral.
4. Nike makes some great shoes. Their other products are midling. But their shoes have saved my feet, back, ankles.
5. I have an American flag in every room in my home and one on my car. I love this country, I loathe police brutality. I feel it is out of hand regardless of race. The escalation level for routine stops makes little sense. Military has a much better approach and better training although they have high risk contact issues as well. I also feel that with most things if it is an issue for the country at large, the circumstances are nearly always going to be worse for communities of color. Black folks particularly.
6. As a teen and 20 year old I marched when some innocent person, typically black, but not always, and usually without a record, was killed during some routine traffic stop. Because it impacted me, scared me. I don't do that any longer because I've made peace with the fact that nobody cares and nothing is going to change. Life is hard, no excuses or bellyaching.
7. As a black man, home owner, who has never been arrested or afoul of the law? (Execpt dipping Copenhagen in highschool before i was 18)I have been in handcuffs and face down on the pavement with guns pointed at me with 3 or more cop cars around me twice. Another, yelled at and the cop was reaching for their gun as I pulled over. The infractions? 1. Rolling through a red light behind a tractor trailer that began on green. I pulled over immediately, always said yessir/no sir and complied in every way. 2. They THOUGHT I had my seatbelt off. Not sure why. Then they didn't believe I live in the area until seeing my license. I had a suit and tie on, playing classical music cos Fresh Air had just gone off air, was driving a 6 year old acccord coupe. 3. Officer was directing traffic and I swerved when he told me to stop. He didn't see someone coming from the other direction while he was turned to me, they alarmed me. As he grabbed fornhisngun, I said nothing just called my folks, put them on speaker to witness the situation and told them I loved them just in case I got shot. The other motorists all pointed out what happened as he walked over and he calmed down. Then, of course, let me go.
I can't know everyone's experience. I have good friends who are white that had to deal with some aggressive officers too but they never fesred for their life. Maybe that fear is irrational. But I've seen folks doe for zero reason while 100% compliance was involved.
8. There are a lot of folks that have had my experience, know someone who has or at the very least empathizes. There are others that are agahst of the killings that cell phone capture has brought to light. Half of my social media timelines were railing against Nike. The other half were praising Nike. I don't know what their goal is but it has to be about business. And they aren't going to fold any time soon .their stock price dips were reflected across the other major shoe brands as well.
1.b I didn't agree with the method of protest simply because I felt that the point of it would be laregly missed and could change unexpectedly, which it has.
2. I still respected the players that did it early on for taking the risk that they did, evidenced in their still not being signed.
3. This is definitely a marketing move, and not true politics. Nike has had a littany of issues with diversity and labor issues against marginalized populations domestically and abroad. Nobody is perfect and Nike isn't trying to have the moral high ground. They are not moral.
4. Nike makes some great shoes. Their other products are midling. But their shoes have saved my feet, back, ankles.
5. I have an American flag in every room in my home and one on my car. I love this country, I loathe police brutality. I feel it is out of hand regardless of race. The escalation level for routine stops makes little sense. Military has a much better approach and better training although they have high risk contact issues as well. I also feel that with most things if it is an issue for the country at large, the circumstances are nearly always going to be worse for communities of color. Black folks particularly.
6. As a teen and 20 year old I marched when some innocent person, typically black, but not always, and usually without a record, was killed during some routine traffic stop. Because it impacted me, scared me. I don't do that any longer because I've made peace with the fact that nobody cares and nothing is going to change. Life is hard, no excuses or bellyaching.
7. As a black man, home owner, who has never been arrested or afoul of the law? (Execpt dipping Copenhagen in highschool before i was 18)I have been in handcuffs and face down on the pavement with guns pointed at me with 3 or more cop cars around me twice. Another, yelled at and the cop was reaching for their gun as I pulled over. The infractions? 1. Rolling through a red light behind a tractor trailer that began on green. I pulled over immediately, always said yessir/no sir and complied in every way. 2. They THOUGHT I had my seatbelt off. Not sure why. Then they didn't believe I live in the area until seeing my license. I had a suit and tie on, playing classical music cos Fresh Air had just gone off air, was driving a 6 year old acccord coupe. 3. Officer was directing traffic and I swerved when he told me to stop. He didn't see someone coming from the other direction while he was turned to me, they alarmed me. As he grabbed fornhisngun, I said nothing just called my folks, put them on speaker to witness the situation and told them I loved them just in case I got shot. The other motorists all pointed out what happened as he walked over and he calmed down. Then, of course, let me go.
I can't know everyone's experience. I have good friends who are white that had to deal with some aggressive officers too but they never fesred for their life. Maybe that fear is irrational. But I've seen folks doe for zero reason while 100% compliance was involved.
8. There are a lot of folks that have had my experience, know someone who has or at the very least empathizes. There are others that are agahst of the killings that cell phone capture has brought to light. Half of my social media timelines were railing against Nike. The other half were praising Nike. I don't know what their goal is but it has to be about business. And they aren't going to fold any time soon .their stock price dips were reflected across the other major shoe brands as well.
ssidedawg said:
Their customer base and investors will be virtually unaffected. Any short term chaos is just short term.
They haven't really alienated anyone but the folks who don't buy their stuff anyhow.
Racial division? Again, not really, because the people REALLY mad aren't buying Nike anyhow. *See bullet #2.
Its a genius PR campaign. They have everyone talking about Nike. Why do folks think a for profit needs to make people "feel good"? Do you feel good about buying Adidas? If so...why? Any idea their politics? Nope.
You may be correct about the fact that they haven't alienated their actual customers. I saw reports yesterday that indicated that the large majority of Nike customers are black. I was surprised at that information considering that a lot of white people buy Nike apparel. I have no doubt that young black men buy the majority of their high margin shoes.
Racial division? Absolutely. The kneeling protests are a black/white social issue to the sports viewing populace. Kaepernick and others have specifically said that they will not stand for the flag of a racist country that allows black people to be brutalized by the police. The implicit argument is that if you do stand for the anthem or do not support their protest, you do support the racist brutalization of black people by police.
However, a lot of white people look at statistics that show white people are more likely to be killed by police than black people and assume that bad actors are lying about the facts for a political agenda. At the inception of the protest, there was a huge push by the national news media to promote a perception of rampant racism in America. So yeah, racial division.
It may be a shrewd business move by Nike. That doesn't make it right or even good. In my industry, there are a lot of companies who sell products to people who have cancer. You can sell a lot more products if you make it seem like your product can cure cancer. It may be shrewd to do that but it doesn't make it right.
This is a great post and I appreciate that you took the time to write it.Firebrand said:
1.a Police offficers have tough jobs that are NECESSARY and overall help sustain society. They face very real dangers where reactions to quickly turning violent situations is a relaity. And they are asked to deal with way too many circumstances where they have to consider both that and relations with regular community members.
1.b I didn't agree with the method of protest simply because I felt that the point of it would be laregly missed and could change unexpectedly, which it has.
2. I still respected the players that did it early on for taking the risk that they did, evidenced in their still not being signed.
3. This is definitely a marketing move, and not true politics. Nike has had a littany of issues with diversity and labor issues against marginalized populations domestically and abroad. Nobody is perfect and Nike isn't trying to have the moral high ground. They are not moral.
4. Nike makes some great shoes. Their other products are midling. But their shoes have saved my feet, back, ankles.
5. I have an American flag in every room in my home and one on my car. I love this country, I loathe police brutality. I feel it is out of hand regardless of race. The escalation level for routine stops makes little sense. Military has a much better approach and better training although they have high risk contact issues as well. I also feel that with most things if it is an issue for the country at large, the circumstances are nearly always going to be worse for communities of color. Black folks particularly.
6. As a teen and 20 year old I marched when some innocent person, typically black, but not always, and usually without a record, was killed during some routine traffic stop. Because it impacted me, scared me. I don't do that any longer because I've made peace with the fact that nobody cares and nothing is going to change. Life is hard, no excuses or bellyaching.
7. As a black man, home owner, who has never been arrested or afoul of the law? (Execpt dipping Copenhagen in highschool before i was 18)I have been in handcuffs and face down on the pavement with guns pointed at me with 3 or more cop cars around me twice. Another, yelled at and the cop was reaching for their gun as I pulled over. The infractions? 1. Rolling through a red light behind a tractor trailer that began on green. I pulled over immediately, always said yessir/no sir and complied in every way. 2. They THOUGHT I had my seatbelt off. Not sure why. Then they didn't believe I live in the area until seeing my license. I had a suit and tie on, playing classical music cos Fresh Air had just gone off air, was driving a 6 year old acccord coupe. 3. Officer was directing traffic and I swerved when he told me to stop. He didn't see someone coming from the other direction while he was turned to me, they alarmed me. As he grabbed fornhisngun, I said nothing just called my folks, put them on speaker to witness the situation and told them I loved them just in case I got shot. The other motorists all pointed out what happened as he walked over and he calmed down. Then, of course, let me go.
I can't know everyone's experience. I have good friends who are white that had to deal with some aggressive officers too but they never fesred for their life. Maybe that fear is irrational. But I've seen folks doe for zero reason while 100% compliance was involved.
8. There are a lot of folks that have had my experience, know someone who has or at the very least empathizes. There are others that are agahst of the killings that cell phone capture has brought to light. Half of my social media timelines were railing against Nike. The other half were praising Nike. I don't know what their goal is but it has to be about business. And they aren't going to fold any time soon .their stock price dips were reflected across the other major shoe brands as well.
I'm not one of those people who loves the police and I don't hate them either. Personally, I don't want them to know who I am and I don't really want to ever interact with them. They definitely have a tough job. However, that doesn't excuse poor training or poor behavior. There was a case a few years back where a police officer in Cartersville, GA was serving a warrant and shot a 15 yr old kid who answered the door. The officer said that she thought the kid had a gun. He was holding a standard Play Station controller. Nothing happened to the cop. All parties where white.
When I was 18, the old Red Dog unit in Atlanta drew their guns on me and two friends for having a pitcher of beer outside of Grumpy's bar. They threw us against a wall and rough housed us pretty good. The female cop kicked my friends legs because they weren't spread out far enough. He had bruises from it. 3 of the officers where white. One was black.
When I was 15, a redneck cop in Acworth, GA had me assume "the position" on the hood of his car and kept shoving me on the hood while he "investigated" why my cousin and I were walking down the side of I-75. I was threatened with jail if I complained.
I'm a white guy. I know that racism exists. I know that bad cops exist. However, that doesn't mean that all of America is racist. The citizens of this country need to be able to talk to one another on a personal and genuine level. The people driving "the conversation" in this country do not want that to happen. They want us divided. It keeps them in power.
The BLM thing is absolutely about the advancement of socialism. I know it isn't sold that way but if you look at the people who finance it, the people who organize the group, and the official, stated goals of BLM, they are all socialists. They do not want healing and resolution of issues. They want ongoing dissension and anger so that they can justify movement to undemocratic government.