I'm not assuming anything - was responding to someone whose post was assuming lots of things, and drawing conclusions based on assumptions and guesses - not facts or evidence or relatable data. He had a narrative to project, and he concocted a made up scenario fit that.

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

These are stats and data from John's Hopkins - updated today. The US is about in the middle in terms of mortality rate - not an outlier one way or the other (look at the 2nd graph). Why
Mortality insetead of cases? The article answers that.
The US mortality rate is 5.3%, and S Korea is 2.3% - not a giant difference.
So, if the US is so stupid and idiotic by reason of the difference in mortality rate, then how crazy stupid and poor in school are the people in the UK, Italy, France, Mexico, and the Netherlands? ...and how super smart are the people in countries like Chile, Serbia, Russia, Belarus, Pakistan, and Malaysia bc of their low mortality rates?

Point is, the poster used some information, based on assumptions (not truth), to come up with a narrative that we are all dumb Americans...which we are not.

The subject has turned to math, so I must speak. There are elements of truth to all of the last 4-5 posts, so I at least partially agree with everyone. But a few points of clarification:

- Nobody knows what the mortality rates are of COVID-19, including Johns Hopkins. The numerator of that calculation is the number of virus related deaths, which is inaccurate because there isn't / hasn't been a consistent definition of that. China changed their definition EIGHT times before April 1. But the real problem with the calculation is that the denominator- number of cases- is pure fantasy. Not only is it artificially capped by testing, but it doesn't take into account the undetermined number of asymptomatic cases. When New York was officially reporting 300,000 cases it was estimated that there were as many as 2.3 million asymptomatic cases. That changes the mortality rate by an order of magnitude.

- Comparing South Korea to the US is silly, because their entire country is smaller than Kentucky. Its much easier to develop and enforce consistent protocols with a much smaller geographic area. The state of Montana has about 600 cases to date... it would be unnecessary overkill requiring them to go on lockdown like NYC. South Korea should be given props for the way they've contained their counts. Some countries have been accused of falsifying numbers, but they haven't been a big target on those lists.

- One recent post questioned whether Americans are trying to prove we're the most stupid. I think we're awfully short sighted and arrogant. I understand that people don't like being told what to do, but refusing to follow simple protocols to maybe halt the spread of disease in the name of personal freedom? Believing that this is over when the case counts are spiking in states that have reopened? (Important disclaimer: state government officials that are trying to balance economic ruin with mitigating the spread of the disease are in a no win situation. Saying they are stupid for reopening isn't looking at the whole problem.)

Anybody old enough to remember the movie Jaws? Whenever I see people clustered together or read about flouting the protocols I think about Chief Brody telling people to stay out of the water.

Dawg44 said:

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They wear masks.

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Nice.

StalkinDawg said:

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I felt like they were smarter than me.

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That's how I feel every time I come to The Porch.

Dawg44 said:

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ssidedawg said:

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Bulldawg1 said:

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since you are talking about math and numbers, you are assuming the exact same percentage of initial hosts/carriers of the virus in both countries when stories of this broke.
1. That is impossible to know for certain either way.
2. It's illogical assume the exact percentages for every country and state and people group and the virus acting the exact same across the world with all climates and people.

But, whatever fits a narrative is truth?

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And you are assuming that taking certain precautions, testing quarantines etc werent a superior choice?

So are you suggesting Koreans arent as susceptible?

Seoul Korea has almost 9 million people which is almost a million more than NYC. They live as crowded as NYC. Yet the numbers are incredibly lower. Why?

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They wear masks.

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Aware...

But NYC and Seoul are VERY comparable for population and density. So it is appropriate to compare those two cities. Comparing US to Korea is absurd, agree.

I agree with that. wouldn't you agree that there is a "huge" difference between 5% and 15% - or higher? same logic applies. As does difference between 2.3% and 0.7%.

Only when I have to.

This is accurate. I also know of people being "diagnosed" with it who did not test positive and are asymptomatic.

Bulldawg1 said:

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This is accurate. I also know of people being "diagnosed" with it who did not test positive and are asymptomatic.

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That would actually bring the mortality rate down.

ssidedawg said:

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Bulldawg1 said:

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since you are talking about math and numbers, you are assuming the exact same percentage of initial hosts/carriers of the virus in both countries when stories of this broke.
1. That is impossible to know for certain either way.
2. It's illogical assume the exact percentages for every country and state and people group and the virus acting the exact same across the world with all climates and people.

But, whatever fits a narrative is truth?

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And you are assuming that taking certain precautions, testing quarantines etc werent a superior choice?

So are you suggesting Koreans arent as susceptible?

Seoul Korea has almost 9 million people which is almost a million more than NYC. They live as crowded as NYC. Yet the numbers are incredibly lower. Why?

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The beurocrats of the CDC, in all their infinite wisdom and elitism, said their test would be the only test and all private companies who also had tests ready needed to file paperwork that would require weeks to approve. The CDC test was garbage due to faulty reagent, delaying testing by weeks. In the meantime all these private companies sat waiting for their tests to be approved. Gotta love red tape.

NYC, the hardest hit, kept subways running and never cleaned them until April. Talk about rolling fomite death traps. People riding poorly ventilated subway cars shoulder to shoulder for hours is asking for trouble. A map was published that showed where infected people were turning up in NY and NJ and the infections closely mirrored the subway routes. It's a head scratcher the subways were never closed or at least service limited.

Korea, on the other hand, had a viable test up and running from the start. The Korean govt also required testing of its citizens and people coming into the country. Additionally, their govt implemented both govt-sanctioned quarantine and contact tracing of positive cases through govt monitored GPS. That would never fly in a free society like ours. Benjamin Franklin said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." We live in a country whose citizens look at the govt with great cynicism. It's ingrained in our Constitutional psyche.

I believe the CDC was following orders from FDA. CDCs hands were tied. It was the FDA that didn't allow private laboratory companies to develop tests until weeks later.

To your point about the subway, sounds about right.

And yeah, South Korean citizens are definitely more willing for their government to track them than us.
But we could've/should've been testing as soon and as much as them.

Not when they die - bc then they say COVID caused it, even though it did not.

I know of this happening - the man died of something unrelated to the disease completely. The family asked that the COD be corrected. It's pretty sad actually. None of his family were allowed access to see him, he died completely alone, and then of course, couldn't have a proper funeral. Brutal.

Can't imagine the suffering from families not being able to see their loved ones in their final hours. Brutal is right.
Two of the facilities I contract with have changed their rules for the very sick in ICUs. Now allowing one and sometimes two visitors to stay. Strict protocols of course, though. Not like they can leave the room and wonder around the hospital. Special entrance/exits for them as well.
I'm glad to see this. No one deserves to die alone.