Why can't we fire Tom now? It's not going to get better. Why wait?
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Last: 3 yr ago by TKramer15
While I understand the sentiment to a degree, I don't know how that would help. I also don't understand what fans expect...outside of not having to rebuild the roster every season. Crean can coach -- he recruited, developed and led three of Indiana's four best teams in a 20+ year span. He didn't forget everything within a few years. Archie Miller, his successor at IU who was hailed as a far superior in-game coach by many fans and plenty of Indiana media, bombed spectacularly.
The problems Crean currently faces are multi-faceted, but everything ultimately comes down to securing enough high level talent. This current group looks like it will fight hard and they've got some nice complimentary pieces, but it lacks true impact players -- a guy or two who can consistently get their own shot and score from anywhere.
In today's often superficial social media world of instant gratification and constant ego-feeding, it can be extremely difficult to secure that talent, particularly at a place that hasn't been a basketball hotbed. I realize that Alabama, Arkansas and Auburn's upswings make that argument difficult to make. But Georgia has been even further away from the spotlight than those schools. Unfortunately, Crean's personality quirks and meme-producing goofy expressions, etc. probably don't play that well in today's environment.
Crean did secure Edwards, Wheeler, Camara and KD Johnson, which, if given several years together, likely could've amounted to something substantial. What if Claxton had returned for one more year? Or if Hammonds had come back last year? But you never get several years in today's world. Of course, Edwards was only going to be one-year guy. I don't know exactly what happened with the others, but it seemed like they ultimately became impatient and didn't want to stay the course. Few people do nowadays. Maybe Crean's intense personality drove them away. I have no idea.
The problems Crean currently faces are multi-faceted, but everything ultimately comes down to securing enough high level talent. This current group looks like it will fight hard and they've got some nice complimentary pieces, but it lacks true impact players -- a guy or two who can consistently get their own shot and score from anywhere.
In today's often superficial social media world of instant gratification and constant ego-feeding, it can be extremely difficult to secure that talent, particularly at a place that hasn't been a basketball hotbed. I realize that Alabama, Arkansas and Auburn's upswings make that argument difficult to make. But Georgia has been even further away from the spotlight than those schools. Unfortunately, Crean's personality quirks and meme-producing goofy expressions, etc. probably don't play that well in today's environment.
Crean did secure Edwards, Wheeler, Camara and KD Johnson, which, if given several years together, likely could've amounted to something substantial. What if Claxton had returned for one more year? Or if Hammonds had come back last year? But you never get several years in today's world. Of course, Edwards was only going to be one-year guy. I don't know exactly what happened with the others, but it seemed like they ultimately became impatient and didn't want to stay the course. Few people do nowadays. Maybe Crean's intense personality drove them away. I have no idea.
As one ex HC told me, Crean is a strange dude. His quirky personality just does not play well here in the South IMO. He has alienated the HS coaches in GA (he has no coaching clinic for them and refuses to socialize with them, for example) and just has failed to make recruiting inroads in state. He lost his best recruiter after his 1st season, so he has been unable to get the talent to come play for him. I don't think there's any question that Crean knows the game; he just can't get the players who can effectively play his style. And I don't think he's adjusting well to not having the talent he needs. His teams here have consistently not played the defense necessary to win and have turned the ball over in bunches. That drives me crazy. Shooting is often hot and cold, but you can correct turnovers, and you can play defense with intensity. Defense doesn't take the night off. There's just no excuse to let Devoe go off for 37 like he did last week. You have to find a way to slow him down. We did nothing. And UVA did nothing special to beat us; they just slowed the pace, played solid defense and let us beat ourselves.
Yep, I think that sums it up very well. What you just described related to Crean's lack of relationship with Georgia coaches mirrors what happened in Indiana. I've heard his personality described as a combination of outwardly overly confident and yet constantly concerned with minutiae that would indicate a lack of confidence (if that makes any sense). There's a sense that the manic pacing and overtly demonstrative behavior are manifestations of insecurities.
At IU, the quirks were mostly ignored until the 2013 Sweet 16 loss to Syracuse. From that point on, it seemed like Crean felt massive pressure and spurned many area coaches and media who he felt were against him. To be fair, many of them were. In the end, Crean's tenure was a success, although it wasn't viewed that way by spoiled IU fans and media.
There are no doubts about Crean being a good person. He and his family are genuinely very good people. But all of the other stuff, combined with word of mouth and the Internet bashing, are likely extremely hard to overcome. Unless you come in to a new environment and win fairly big right away, today's social media world can bury you quite fast. I would've thought that Crean would do everything possible to change his persona, but it doesn't appear to be happening.
At IU, the quirks were mostly ignored until the 2013 Sweet 16 loss to Syracuse. From that point on, it seemed like Crean felt massive pressure and spurned many area coaches and media who he felt were against him. To be fair, many of them were. In the end, Crean's tenure was a success, although it wasn't viewed that way by spoiled IU fans and media.
There are no doubts about Crean being a good person. He and his family are genuinely very good people. But all of the other stuff, combined with word of mouth and the Internet bashing, are likely extremely hard to overcome. Unless you come in to a new environment and win fairly big right away, today's social media world can bury you quite fast. I would've thought that Crean would do everything possible to change his persona, but it doesn't appear to be happening.
Why?
Because the buy out drops significantly in March.
Josh Brooks ain't playin'. But he ain't penny wise and pound foolish either.
Because the buy out drops significantly in March.
Josh Brooks ain't playin'. But he ain't penny wise and pound foolish either.
Unfortunately, I think there's too much of a belief that a coach can overcome significant gaps in talent and consistently make the sum way better than the parts. Some are surely better than others at that. But Coach K, Calipari, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Tom Izzo, etc. all need big time talent to consistently succeed. Crean may not be anywhere near those guys' level, but he has beaten all of them except K and he has developed plenty of future pros, including turning guys like Victor Oladipo and OG Anunoby into household NBA names from relative obscurity in high school.
Crean's best squads at Indiana had one thing in common, they all had numerous deadly three point shooters. At essentially all times, four or maybe all five guys on the court were threats from the outside. They spread the floor and moved exceptionally well without the ball. In some ways, that's not really any different than what most highly successful teams possess nowadays. Unfortunately, his squads always seem to have the same deficiencies -- an inability to consistently take care of the ball and inconsistent defensive effort/cohesion.
Sahvir Wheeler looked like Crean's new Yogi Ferrell, albeit a poor man's version (Ferrell was an outstanding shooter and a solid defender). While Crean got all four years from Yogi, he managed only two from Wheeler. The rest of the pieces haven't come together. Perhaps they could have as one commenter suggested. Had Claxton returned to pair with Edwards, Hammonds, Wheeler and Camara, I'm guessing Georgia wins five or six more conference games that season and is solidly in the NCAA Tournament discussion (albeit there was no tournament). Although it was still ultimately disappointing, last year did show progress. Unfortunately, the key players either didn't feel that way or they believed more surefire immediate success could come to them elsewhere. That's a shame.
Crean's best squads at Indiana had one thing in common, they all had numerous deadly three point shooters. At essentially all times, four or maybe all five guys on the court were threats from the outside. They spread the floor and moved exceptionally well without the ball. In some ways, that's not really any different than what most highly successful teams possess nowadays. Unfortunately, his squads always seem to have the same deficiencies -- an inability to consistently take care of the ball and inconsistent defensive effort/cohesion.
Sahvir Wheeler looked like Crean's new Yogi Ferrell, albeit a poor man's version (Ferrell was an outstanding shooter and a solid defender). While Crean got all four years from Yogi, he managed only two from Wheeler. The rest of the pieces haven't come together. Perhaps they could have as one commenter suggested. Had Claxton returned to pair with Edwards, Hammonds, Wheeler and Camara, I'm guessing Georgia wins five or six more conference games that season and is solidly in the NCAA Tournament discussion (albeit there was no tournament). Although it was still ultimately disappointing, last year did show progress. Unfortunately, the key players either didn't feel that way or they believed more surefire immediate success could come to them elsewhere. That's a shame.
KD is the leading scorer at auburn. Tye Fagan is third leading scorer at ole miss. Wheeler is averaging 11 points a game and more than 8 assists a game. Camara leading scorer at Dayton. I would have fired Crean when those guys left town. I'm sorry, but "players want to do what they want because of portal" is not an excuse for losing your whole team.
Dumpster fire. I wouldn't be shocked to not win another game.
This is not my belief. My belief is that a college coach is responsible for gaps in talent, particularly when coaching at a major college like UGA. Spare me any excuses - no coach is dealt a perfect hand.TKramer15 said:
Unfortunately, I think there's too much of a belief that a coach can overcome significant gaps in talent...
The transfer portal? Every kid who transfers ends up somewhere. Other teams took our prime cuts. We took the scraps. If you can't manage the portal, you can't coach major college basketball.
What we are seeing right now (nearly doubled up by a Northwestern team missing their leading scorer in the first half) is all Crean.
He said this was his best shooting team. They can't shoot. He preaches fast break. They don't know how to run it. Turnovers. Clueless on defense.
Changing coaches now is pointless, but as of today, Crean has done nothing to earn a fifth year.
I disagree. Crean has already shown multiple times he doesn't make halftime adjustments. A 5th grader could coach better than him. I would take anyone other than Tom on that coaching staff.
You could be right. I have no idea what went on behind the scenes to lead each of those guys to leave other than what anyone from the outside could surmise.
Camara will undoubtedly star at UD in a much weaker Atlantic 10. Wheeler welcomed a chance to immediately and significantly raise his profile at one of the sport's blue bloods. His remarks about the NBA (however unrealistic) and wanting a guaranteed ticket to the NCAA Tournament were telling. KD Johnson seemed to have some things going on behind the scenes. Pearl is undoubtedly viewed as the total opposite of Crean. I'm not sure about Fagan.
None of the departures reflect well on Crean, but I don't know how to solely condemn the coach when we simply don't know what else went on. Wheeler seemed, at least publicly, to be very committed to being Georgia's leader, but something changed rather abruptly. In today's age of social media and constant communication, it's almost a guarantee that other players and even some coaches are putting feelers out, which likely affect transfer portal decisions.
If this was all driven by Crean's personality, then I'm not sure how he got any of these guys in the first place or whether he should be coaching at all. Perhaps the social media era is too much for him to overcome.
Camara will undoubtedly star at UD in a much weaker Atlantic 10. Wheeler welcomed a chance to immediately and significantly raise his profile at one of the sport's blue bloods. His remarks about the NBA (however unrealistic) and wanting a guaranteed ticket to the NCAA Tournament were telling. KD Johnson seemed to have some things going on behind the scenes. Pearl is undoubtedly viewed as the total opposite of Crean. I'm not sure about Fagan.
None of the departures reflect well on Crean, but I don't know how to solely condemn the coach when we simply don't know what else went on. Wheeler seemed, at least publicly, to be very committed to being Georgia's leader, but something changed rather abruptly. In today's age of social media and constant communication, it's almost a guarantee that other players and even some coaches are putting feelers out, which likely affect transfer portal decisions.
If this was all driven by Crean's personality, then I'm not sure how he got any of these guys in the first place or whether he should be coaching at all. Perhaps the social media era is too much for him to overcome.