you were to replace Tom Crean this offseason (I don't think UGA will) who would you go with?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Miller
He's been impressive for a while now, and the UNC job is gone.
He's someone I would keep an eye on. He might not be around this time next year.
But I would start there and take a good look at Jonas as well.
Still, I want to hear your pick.
He's been impressive for a while now, and the UNC job is gone.
He's someone I would keep an eye on. He might not be around this time next year.
But I would start there and take a good look at Jonas as well.
Still, I want to hear your pick.
I would start with Wes Miller. I would also look at Pat Kelsey (I know he just took the CofC job). Jonas makes sense, hes done a very good job on Steele's staff at Xavier.
I would honestly give Jonas the first crack. Former player, should see what UGA can become, should know what UGA needs from a funding standpoint and should know how to ask for it.
I am not saying it should be UGA, but someone is going to give Gregg Marshall another opportunity at some point. Hes too good of a coach. All things being equal, I think hes a better coach than Crean and would do a great job recruiting Atlanta.
I would honestly give Jonas the first crack. Former player, should see what UGA can become, should know what UGA needs from a funding standpoint and should know how to ask for it.
I am not saying it should be UGA, but someone is going to give Gregg Marshall another opportunity at some point. Hes too good of a coach. All things being equal, I think hes a better coach than Crean and would do a great job recruiting Atlanta.
Someone who can convince Bruce Thornton's son and Kessler to reconsider leaving the state...Is that Jonas?Dean Legge said:
you were to replace Tom Crean this offseason (I don't think UGA will) who would you go with?
The "perfect" candidate: younger, I'd even take young. Played in the south. Head coaching experience, in the south. A coaching track record that shows improvement over tenure, not success on the previous guys players then a downward trend. And all this is negotiable but what is not - who are you hiring as assistants. I need to know up front. And they better be absolute recruiting murder hornets.
But first, Butts-Mehre needs to soul search and decide if they really want to win at men's basketball. If so, then Butts-Mehre needs to spend hours talking with basketball folks and researching who is a fit for UGA. Not throwing money at a name to feed the masses then financially short-changing the overall program.
But first, Butts-Mehre needs to soul search and decide if they really want to win at men's basketball. If so, then Butts-Mehre needs to spend hours talking with basketball folks and researching who is a fit for UGA. Not throwing money at a name to feed the masses then financially short-changing the overall program.
Kenny Payne. Assistant under Calipari. Now assistant for the Knicks. Got some NBA cred now, to go with college experience. Great recruiter. Give him a basically blank checkbook for assistants.
Dean or anyone else, with the attrition that is happening with our roster coupled with the fact that we haven't shown a ton of improvement during Crean's career (so far), why shouldn't we pull the trigger and make a change? We had a lot of experience coming back before players starting transferring out and now if it is going to be a rebuild year next year, why not let a young, hungry coach come in and rebuild.
Watching UGA basketball seasons end with the only thing we see for next year is the hope of a new coach. I don't see much of a change for this year.
I agree that it will be surprising if we make a change but what if McGarity had waited and given CMR another year or two? Would we be as excited about the future of our football program as most of the fanbase is right now? I don't say this to slam CMR, I guess I am asking how many of us believe that CTC is the man to lead us to a better place with our Bball program? If we agree that CTC isn't the guy for the job then why wait?
I kind of agree with Dean that three years is a short leash to be chopping coaches - even if they've been a dismal three years and Year 4 is a forgone conclusion (though we s**t-canned Jirsa after two and he had a better SEC and overall record than Crean, plus two NIT bids) - but the $7M buy-out is a significant factor I am sure.
here is a start from an article May last year. Need a young talented guy looking forthe opportunity. If he builds it then leaves in 5 yrs so be it. Maybe they build it, realize they have admin backing (hopefully) and great recruiting ground and stay a while like Donovan did at UF.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-men-college-basketball
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-men-college-basketball
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Two things from my perspective
1. Firing after three years with the transfer portal still out there is a little soon
2. $7M buyout.
1. Firing after three years with the transfer portal still out there is a little soon
2. $7M buyout.
Some names mentioned:
Jeff Boals, Ohio, 48 years old, from Magnolia (OH), played for Ohio: in 5 years @ Stony Brook & Ohio he's earned a 89-64 record (58.2%)
Pat Kelsey, College of Charleston, 45 years old, from Cincinnati, played for Wyoming & Xavier: in 9 years @ Winthrop he earned a 185-95 record (66.1%)
Andy Kennedy, UAB, 53 years old, from Mississippi, played for NC State & UAB: in 14 years @ Cincinnati, Ole Miss, & UAB he's earned a 288-176 record (62.1%) -- note: he earned a 245-166 record (102-98 SEC) @ Ole Miss over 12 years
Grant McCasland, North Texas, 44 years old, from Irving (TX), played for Baylor: in 12 years @ Midland College, Midwestern State, Arkansas State, and North Texas he's earned a 296-107 record (73.4%)
Wes Miller, UNC-Greensboro, 38 years old, from Greensboro, played for James Madison & UNC: in 10 years he's earned a 185-135 record (57.8%)
Mark Pope, BYU, 48 years old, from Omaha (NE), played for Washington & Kentucky; was an assistant coach @ UGA in 2009-'10: in 6 years @ Utah Valley & BYU he's earned a 121-71 record (63.0%)
Brad Underwood, Illinois, 57 years old, from McPherson (KS), played for Hardin-Simmons/Independence CC/Kansas State: in 11 years @ Daytona Beach, Stephen F. Austin, Oklahoma State, and Illinois he's earned a 193-107 record (65.7%)
Fwiw, on 13 May 2020 ESPN ranked the top 40 college basketball coaches under 40 (former UGA assistant coach Amir Abdur-Rahim is listed at #19, although he's earned a 6-47 [11.3%] record at Kennesaw State the past two years):
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-men-college-basketball
Jeff Boals, Ohio, 48 years old, from Magnolia (OH), played for Ohio: in 5 years @ Stony Brook & Ohio he's earned a 89-64 record (58.2%)
Pat Kelsey, College of Charleston, 45 years old, from Cincinnati, played for Wyoming & Xavier: in 9 years @ Winthrop he earned a 185-95 record (66.1%)
Andy Kennedy, UAB, 53 years old, from Mississippi, played for NC State & UAB: in 14 years @ Cincinnati, Ole Miss, & UAB he's earned a 288-176 record (62.1%) -- note: he earned a 245-166 record (102-98 SEC) @ Ole Miss over 12 years
Grant McCasland, North Texas, 44 years old, from Irving (TX), played for Baylor: in 12 years @ Midland College, Midwestern State, Arkansas State, and North Texas he's earned a 296-107 record (73.4%)
Wes Miller, UNC-Greensboro, 38 years old, from Greensboro, played for James Madison & UNC: in 10 years he's earned a 185-135 record (57.8%)
Mark Pope, BYU, 48 years old, from Omaha (NE), played for Washington & Kentucky; was an assistant coach @ UGA in 2009-'10: in 6 years @ Utah Valley & BYU he's earned a 121-71 record (63.0%)
Brad Underwood, Illinois, 57 years old, from McPherson (KS), played for Hardin-Simmons/Independence CC/Kansas State: in 11 years @ Daytona Beach, Stephen F. Austin, Oklahoma State, and Illinois he's earned a 193-107 record (65.7%)
Fwiw, on 13 May 2020 ESPN ranked the top 40 college basketball coaches under 40 (former UGA assistant coach Amir Abdur-Rahim is listed at #19, although he's earned a 6-47 [11.3%] record at Kennesaw State the past two years):
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/29157808/40-40-rank-best-young-coaches-men-college-basketball
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I will add that I'm not so sure someone would leave.
For Carolina or duke or Kentucky.
But not for many other places. The SEC is paying so much these days. That's the thing.
For Carolina or duke or Kentucky.
But not for many other places. The SEC is paying so much these days. That's the thing.
And you absolutely could get it rolling with none of the pressure of those three.
Seriously. Baylor just won the NC with two journeymen from Georgia. This state is hemorrhaging hoops talent.
Seriously. Baylor just won the NC with two journeymen from Georgia. This state is hemorrhaging hoops talent.
UGA hired Tom Crean on 15 March 2018. His buyout, without cause:
after the 2018-'19 season: $16M
after the 2019-'20 season: $9.6M
after the 2020-'21 season: $7.2M
after the 2021-'22 season: $3.2M
after the 2022-'23 season: $1.6M
***
per Jeff Gordon on 16 February 2021:
"College basketball chews up its coaches because delusional boosters always believe the Next Guy is better.
Every fan base wants to win. Everybody program is spending big, trying to win. But somebody has to lose.
Across the country very good coaches pay the price for that -- unless they have huge buyouts. Then their school pays the price while the coaches enjoy lifetime financial security for their effort."
after the 2020-'21 season: $7.2M
after the 2021-'22 season: $3.2M
after the 2022-'23 season: $1.6M
***
per Jeff Gordon on 16 February 2021:
"College basketball chews up its coaches because delusional boosters always believe the Next Guy is better.
Every fan base wants to win. Everybody program is spending big, trying to win. But somebody has to lose.
Across the country very good coaches pay the price for that -- unless they have huge buyouts. Then their school pays the price while the coaches enjoy lifetime financial security for their effort."
Roger Powell, Jr.
7M is only an issue if you don't have it.
Three years is a precedent I don't necessarily want to set...but sell me on why he should get a year 4? Is he getting Kessler? What am I missing, you want to save 5M on buyout? You going to give that savings to the next coach for assistants?
Why would he win enough to get to the NCAAT with Kessler when he couldn't with Edwards would be my follow up question?
Three years is a precedent I don't necessarily want to set...but sell me on why he should get a year 4? Is he getting Kessler? What am I missing, you want to save 5M on buyout? You going to give that savings to the next coach for assistants?
Why would he win enough to get to the NCAAT with Kessler when he couldn't with Edwards would be my follow up question?
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$7M
Scott Drew if you are going to fire Crean spend the $ and aim high or keep Crean.
He is not getting Kessler
Non issue. We have that.
You need to make sure "you're hiring Kirby." But if you can do that...you do it.
You need to make sure "you're hiring Kirby." But if you can do that...you do it.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Are you against that?GoodDawg4733 said:
7M is only an issue if you don't have it.
Three years is a precedent I don't necessarily want to set...but sell me on why he should get a year 4? Is he getting Kessler? What am I missing, you want to save 5M on buyout? You going to give that savings to the next coach for assistants?
Why would he win enough to get to the NCAAT with Kessler when he couldn't with Edwards would be my follow up question?
I don't think anyone would disagree with this, but what makes you think we can do that? I don't think we should make a $5 million gamble on that this year.GoodDawg4733 said:
Non issue. We have that.
You need to make sure "you're hiring Kirby." But if you can do that...you do it.
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Agree.
Brad Stevens
ugalee said:Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Are you against that?GoodDawg4733 said:
7M is only an issue if you don't have it.
Three years is a precedent I don't necessarily want to set...but sell me on why he should get a year 4? Is he getting Kessler? What am I missing, you want to save 5M on buyout? You going to give that savings to the next coach for assistants?
Why would he win enough to get to the NCAAT with Kessler when he couldn't with Edwards would be my follow up question?
No. You believe they (UGAA) will do that?
ugalee said:I don't think anyone would disagree with this, but what makes you think we can do that? I don't think we should make a $5 million gamble on that this year.GoodDawg4733 said:
Non issue. We have that.
You need to make sure "you're hiring Kirby." But if you can do that...you do it.
I don't have faith we can do it at all. But when something/someone is underperforming, with no sign of turning it around, you let them go.
In all honesty what's a 5MM difference to UGAA? UT, totally understandable.
Indiana put out feelers for him and said he wanted to stay in NBA. Back when he was at Butler it blew me away he left for NBA. I thought t the time it would come to a UNC vs Duke battle who would get him to succeed Williams and Coach Kchamp1210 said:
Brad Stevens
Dean Legge said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wes_Miller
He's been impressive for a while now, and the UNC job is gone.
He's someone I would keep an eye on. He might not be around this time next year.
But I would start there and take a good look at Jonas as well.
Still, I want to hear your pick.
We should be seriously considering Jonas Hayes if and when we move on from Crean. UGA is his dream job. He would recruit this state far better than Crean has so far. He played for Jim Harrick, the best X&O guy we have ever had at UGA, so he would surely incorporate much of Harrick's system. He would be a passionate advocate for UGA in trying to build a basketball brand. If he proved to be successful (as I think he would), he would not leave UGA for a higher profile job. I'm pretty sure Jonas has a very clear idea of who he would have on his staff and what kind of system he would run. The fact that he has never been a head coach should not deter us from giving him the job. Dean Smith had never been a HC when he got the UNC job; Roy Williams had never been a HC when he got the Kansas job; Hubert Davis, never a HC, just got the UNC job; Kirby had never been a HC until he got the UGA job.
Our basketball program will only be successful, regardless of who has the HC job, when the administration truly decides to support the program financially - not just in what it pays the HC, but in all aspects. We spend less on hoops than any team in the SEC or any team in the NCAA tourney. Think about that. We have only 2 revenue-producing sports - football and men's basketball - yet, we spend less on basketball than any of our competitors. That won't produce a winner. A $233,000 recruiting budget? That's pathetic. And our results reflect the lack of support....
Our basketball program will only be successful, regardless of who has the HC job, when the administration truly decides to support the program financially - not just in what it pays the HC, but in all aspects. We spend less on hoops than any team in the SEC or any team in the NCAA tourney. Think about that. We have only 2 revenue-producing sports - football and men's basketball - yet, we spend less on basketball than any of our competitors. That won't produce a winner. A $233,000 recruiting budget? That's pathetic. And our results reflect the lack of support....
What about Bobby Hurley?
If we hired someone with head coaching experience, I would want them to have been to a final four and multiple sweet sixteens that prove they know what they are doing. They would also need to be a good recruiter and promote the program very well.
If we hired an assistant, I would want someone who loves Georgia and might not ever leave. They would also need to be a great recruiter and promote the program very well.
Either one of these would give us a fighting chance to become a great basketball program if we don't fire them after just a few years.
If we hired an assistant, I would want someone who loves Georgia and might not ever leave. They would also need to be a great recruiter and promote the program very well.
Either one of these would give us a fighting chance to become a great basketball program if we don't fire them after just a few years.
Your first sentence describes Crean. He did not take Indiana to the NCAA until his 4th season. In 21 seasons, he has danced 9x.
I'll give him this next season to prove his merit.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tom-crean-1.html
I'll give him this next season to prove his merit.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/coaches/tom-crean-1.html