Wondering what others think:
They were talking about their schedule and someone said they wanted to play UGA. They made comments like:
Would rather have UGA but not sure Mike White wants the smoke... or
Let's not do that to the man. White just got there and can't afford the disappointment...
So, I posted:
As a UGA season ticketholder (and now a GSU season ticketholder), I can understand UGA not playing GSU. 1st, the Dawgs' results have historically not been good. 2nd, White has a total rebuild on his hands. 3rd, UGA has nothing to gain by playing that game - if UGA wins it's "Well, you were supposed to win" and if UGA loses it's "How could you lose that game?" It's a lose-lose situation. Give White a few years to build a roster first.
I got the response:
I disagree that it's "you were supposed to win" for UGA. Maybe 10 years ago. But also GSU has taken 3 of the last 4. No shame in losing to a better team.
To which I said:
Of course, you disagree, but an SEC team shouldn't be losing to a Sun Belt League team on paper. There's a great disparity between the schools in terms of resources. Now, I will be the 1st to admit that UGA has not put forth the resources and commitment to basketball over the years that we should, and that has cost the program often. GSU has done a great job with hoops dating back to Lefty up to the present. You can recruit 2 or 3 great players and beat a lot teams. I watched Lefty beat Jim Harrick a couple of times, and I watched GSU destroy one of Crean's teams in a holiday tournament. UGA just doesn't gain anything by playing GSU, any more than they do playing Mercer, for example. Hell, we have many people saying we should stop playing Tech in football for the same reason.
Someone responded:
You're right. UGA will not play GSU in basketball outside of an OOC start of season tournament. I mean, they even tried to back out of the last one of those too. Where we vary is UGA and fans say it's a lose-lose and we say it's because you're scared.
I said:
White has to have time to construct a roster that he can compete with. Crean left him with virtually nothing.
They said:
I get your point, but GSU lost their top SIX scorers and 7 out of their top 8 from last year (along with their coach). There has never been a better time to beat them.
I said:
Well, Jonas has gotten GSU a likely upgrade in the backcourt with Odom and Tucker. Mann will probably be a starter at SF. I think all 3 will be big contributors. The big kid from FL looks like a good piece. Jonas has got more work to do, but so far so good, it seems to me. I wouldn't assume there will be a drop in production. I don't understand the big men transferring out. Jonas loves working with big men, and his offense will probably flow to some degree through high post big men. It's just dumb to leave a team where the coach will feature you for some unknown.
Finally, one guy commented:
I think on paper GSU has a better resume in recent history. Not sure that resources or conference have much to do with it. The SEC is a multi-bid conference and GSU has almost always been in a one-bid conference. A few facts since the turn of the century:
My reply was:
I don't think I have said anywhere that GSU hasn't beaten UGA or hasn't been more successful lately as a program. The problem at UGA is that the administration hasn't always committed the resources necessary to have a winning basketball program - I'm looking at you Vince Dooley. Plus, the fan interest hasn't always been there for hoops. I remember our Final Four team in '82-'83, my first year in Athens. There were many games where there was not much of a crowd, despite the fact that there was a ton of talent on that team. UGA actually tried to hire John Wooden in the 40s, I think, but I believe he was turned off by UGA/SEC not recruiting black players. That stupid racism cost UGA dozens of homegrown talents and prevented the Dawgs from having a historically great program. UGA actually hired Babe McCarthy at one time, a fantastic and courageous coach, but he never coached a game in Athens. I think he died of a heart attack before he could take over.
The program has gone through peaks and valleys during my 50 years as a fan - far too many valleys for my taste. We have made stupid coaching choices on numerous occasions. We haven't, IMO, had a good coach since Harrick (who I continue to believe was scapegoated and railroaded by Adams/Dooley during their own turf war). Harrick lost twice to Lefty, but he had a rebuild when he took over; his last team had Final Four potential. Felton sucked, Fox was mediocre and Crean was a disaster of epic proportions.
I think White is a good hire. We'll see. I think the new AD is going to give White the resources to be competitive in hoops. (3-4 years ago, I looked at a list of the basketball budgets for the 68 teams in the NCAA tourney. UGA's basketball budget was lower than every team on the list. The recruiting budget was pitifully small.) There's no doubt that GSU has been better in the last probably 20 years. But frankly, that's not saying much. Hell, Little Sisters of the Poor has had a better basketball program than UGA has been in recent years. If UGA can harness the fan interest/support the program has shown in recent years and commit to winning, I see no reason why UGA can't be a perennial Top 25 team. I have long felt that way, since a buddy of mine and I watched Durham's team practice every day for 2+ years. UGA has the resources to make that kind of commitment to winning. That's not to say GSU is not and has not been a good program, but don't measure yourself by UGA's program. I want Jonas to succeed beyond anything your prior coaches have done. Just gotta let it play out....
And I believe with our resources, we could reasonably reach the goal of Top 25 regularly with the right leadership. White might be that guy! And saying you're more successful than us ain't saying much. LOL
They were talking about their schedule and someone said they wanted to play UGA. They made comments like:
Would rather have UGA but not sure Mike White wants the smoke... or
Let's not do that to the man. White just got there and can't afford the disappointment...
So, I posted:
As a UGA season ticketholder (and now a GSU season ticketholder), I can understand UGA not playing GSU. 1st, the Dawgs' results have historically not been good. 2nd, White has a total rebuild on his hands. 3rd, UGA has nothing to gain by playing that game - if UGA wins it's "Well, you were supposed to win" and if UGA loses it's "How could you lose that game?" It's a lose-lose situation. Give White a few years to build a roster first.
I got the response:
I disagree that it's "you were supposed to win" for UGA. Maybe 10 years ago. But also GSU has taken 3 of the last 4. No shame in losing to a better team.
To which I said:
Of course, you disagree, but an SEC team shouldn't be losing to a Sun Belt League team on paper. There's a great disparity between the schools in terms of resources. Now, I will be the 1st to admit that UGA has not put forth the resources and commitment to basketball over the years that we should, and that has cost the program often. GSU has done a great job with hoops dating back to Lefty up to the present. You can recruit 2 or 3 great players and beat a lot teams. I watched Lefty beat Jim Harrick a couple of times, and I watched GSU destroy one of Crean's teams in a holiday tournament. UGA just doesn't gain anything by playing GSU, any more than they do playing Mercer, for example. Hell, we have many people saying we should stop playing Tech in football for the same reason.
Someone responded:
You're right. UGA will not play GSU in basketball outside of an OOC start of season tournament. I mean, they even tried to back out of the last one of those too. Where we vary is UGA and fans say it's a lose-lose and we say it's because you're scared.
I said:
White has to have time to construct a roster that he can compete with. Crean left him with virtually nothing.
They said:
I get your point, but GSU lost their top SIX scorers and 7 out of their top 8 from last year (along with their coach). There has never been a better time to beat them.
I said:
Well, Jonas has gotten GSU a likely upgrade in the backcourt with Odom and Tucker. Mann will probably be a starter at SF. I think all 3 will be big contributors. The big kid from FL looks like a good piece. Jonas has got more work to do, but so far so good, it seems to me. I wouldn't assume there will be a drop in production. I don't understand the big men transferring out. Jonas loves working with big men, and his offense will probably flow to some degree through high post big men. It's just dumb to leave a team where the coach will feature you for some unknown.
Finally, one guy commented:
I think on paper GSU has a better resume in recent history. Not sure that resources or conference have much to do with it. The SEC is a multi-bid conference and GSU has almost always been in a one-bid conference. A few facts since the turn of the century:
- GSU is +1 in NCAA tournament appearances.
- Same number of NCAA tournament wins.
- UGA is +6 in players drafted.
- Same number of coaches.
My reply was:
I don't think I have said anywhere that GSU hasn't beaten UGA or hasn't been more successful lately as a program. The problem at UGA is that the administration hasn't always committed the resources necessary to have a winning basketball program - I'm looking at you Vince Dooley. Plus, the fan interest hasn't always been there for hoops. I remember our Final Four team in '82-'83, my first year in Athens. There were many games where there was not much of a crowd, despite the fact that there was a ton of talent on that team. UGA actually tried to hire John Wooden in the 40s, I think, but I believe he was turned off by UGA/SEC not recruiting black players. That stupid racism cost UGA dozens of homegrown talents and prevented the Dawgs from having a historically great program. UGA actually hired Babe McCarthy at one time, a fantastic and courageous coach, but he never coached a game in Athens. I think he died of a heart attack before he could take over.
The program has gone through peaks and valleys during my 50 years as a fan - far too many valleys for my taste. We have made stupid coaching choices on numerous occasions. We haven't, IMO, had a good coach since Harrick (who I continue to believe was scapegoated and railroaded by Adams/Dooley during their own turf war). Harrick lost twice to Lefty, but he had a rebuild when he took over; his last team had Final Four potential. Felton sucked, Fox was mediocre and Crean was a disaster of epic proportions.
I think White is a good hire. We'll see. I think the new AD is going to give White the resources to be competitive in hoops. (3-4 years ago, I looked at a list of the basketball budgets for the 68 teams in the NCAA tourney. UGA's basketball budget was lower than every team on the list. The recruiting budget was pitifully small.) There's no doubt that GSU has been better in the last probably 20 years. But frankly, that's not saying much. Hell, Little Sisters of the Poor has had a better basketball program than UGA has been in recent years. If UGA can harness the fan interest/support the program has shown in recent years and commit to winning, I see no reason why UGA can't be a perennial Top 25 team. I have long felt that way, since a buddy of mine and I watched Durham's team practice every day for 2+ years. UGA has the resources to make that kind of commitment to winning. That's not to say GSU is not and has not been a good program, but don't measure yourself by UGA's program. I want Jonas to succeed beyond anything your prior coaches have done. Just gotta let it play out....
And I believe with our resources, we could reasonably reach the goal of Top 25 regularly with the right leadership. White might be that guy! And saying you're more successful than us ain't saying much. LOL
