Final Feelings: Game of Thrones... Winter is Here
ATHENS - Winter has arrived, and the Dawg Post crew gives you their final feelings on the finale of Game of Thrones on HBO on Sunday night.
Matt’s Final Feelings:
Game of Thrones Final Feelings time.
First off, I think I’m in the minority here, but I’ve really enjoyed this final season. Yes, there are plenty of plot holes, but with so many characters it would be impossible not to have some here and there. Could they have made more episodes and stretched it out a little bit more? Absolutely. Either way, I have enjoyed the final season, and I’ll tell you why.
Everyone knows Dany was going crazy. The show has been dropping hints that it would happen for a while now so that shouldn’t have been a shock to anyone. Nobody in their right mind thought she was going to back down when Cersei’s army surrendered. Dany was burning the city to the ground the whole time, and you’re crazy if you didn’t see that coming. I’m cool with Dany’s turn to the Mad Queen. Targaryen’s are crazy. They burn people. I’m fine with it. It’s not like this all happened in the course of one or two episodes, either. She’s been slowly going mad for a couple of seasons now.
As expected, Jon Snow is still the honorable peacemaker. The dude is just trying to be loyal to his queen and his family. Tough situation to be in, especially when your queen is crazy gorgeous and has a big ole dragon on her side. In the end, Jon is going to have to turn his back on Dany. He’s going to side with his sisters, and then he’ll have to fight Grey Worm in the season finale to get to Dany. I’m ready for it.
Let’s talk about Jaime for a second. I’ve never seen a character go through more than what Jaime had to go through in these six episodes. The guy rode horseback from King’s Landing to Winterfell (how many weeks is that trip?), confronted Bran about pushing him out of a window, and fought off the army of the dead for hours with one hand. After that, he rocked Brienne’s world in one night, then left for Kings Landing AGAIN to fight in another war. He fought and killed Euron (still with one hand), and made it back to his one true love, his twin sister.
Now THAT is love. From now on, every time I think I can’t do something, I’ll remember what Jaime Lannister did with ONE HAND in season 8. That’s as brave and courageous as it gets. Nobody in Westeros was going to stop him from getting to his sister lover.
Most people hated the way Cersei died but I thought it was perfectly fine. I’m no William Shakespeare when it comes to poetry and all that, but I thought her death alongside Jaime was poetic. They came into the world together, the schemed and killed together, and then they died together. I mean, was Arya supposed to kill Cersei? Yes, Arya has talked about it the entire time, but the two characters have ZERO connection with each other. Have the two ever spoken throughout the show? I don’t think so. Arya being the one to kill Cersei would have been so lame. I liked how she went out with Jaime.
Also, the Clegane Bowl was awesome. Going back and forth on a collapsing castle surrounded by fire and dragons from above? That was perfect.
Let’s move on to Arya. I was totally fine with her killing the Night King. She’s been training to be an assassin for years now, so I get it. It’s really on the Night King anyway for letting his guard down while he was playing some weird mind game with Bran. Of course Arya is going to come out of nowhere and kill him. That’s what she does.
Sansa has been getting on my nerves just like her annoying mother did. I know she’s important and went through some crazy times, but she needs to lighten up. She’s got the North, everyone loves her and she’s still alive. Nobody in Westeros should be as happy as Sansa Stark right now. She finally made it, at least for one more episode.
My dude Tyrion has lost his way. I don’t like how the show turned him into some dumbass when it comes to strategy, but I guess they needed it for the general storyline. Either way, he’s been a terrible hand for a while now. If Tyrion were an SEC football coach he’d be fired by now. I hope he survives the episode, but there’s no way he and Dany can be on good terms right now. Also, Peter Dinklage should win every award out there. All the Emmys or whatever they’re called. He deserves them all.
Before I go on a little rant, I want to say that I LOVE the show. It’s not perfect, but it’s the most fun I’ve ever had watching a drama series like this. Between the acting, the characters, the music, the visual effects, it’s all amazing. I do have some beef with a couple of the characters, though.
Bran. What is his point now? He can see in the past and apparently knows everything, but he insists on being weird and have people feel sorry for him. He’s literally sitting on all this information that should be pretty helpful to everyone. All he’s been good for this season is being a lame decoy for the Night King so his little sister can come and do the dirty work. Bran is bringing nothing to the team right now when he should be their biggest weapon. When he does end up talking he’s usually just being an asshole. I’m over Bran and his cryptic ways.
Then there’s Samwell Tarley. Maybe my least favorite character in all of television. That is literally the luckiest dude in the world. That weak fatty couldn’t pick up a sword in season 1, but later kills a White Walker, survives the Wildling attack on Castle Black, and then survives the battle of Winterfell? NO WAY I’m buying that. The dude gets to leave the Knight’s Watch (a life-long honor), to go read some books in the beautiful Citadel. He then gives up on the Citadel, steals his family sword, and gets to have all the sex he wants with Gilly, who he captured from the wildlings. Nobody has had an easier/luckier life than Sam. He can’t fight but he’s able to survive every battle, and then gets to mess around with Gilly whenever he’s bored. What a life. I TOTALLY understand why his badass father hated him so much. If I ever have a son, he will be nothing like that loser Samwell Tarley.
Anyway, I do feel like the last episode will be a letdown. I don’t know why. I enjoyed the Battle of Winterfell earlier in the season, but I enjoyed the last episode even more. We saw a main character go crazy, the demise of some villains, and the episode was shot beautifully. Yes, there are still plenty of plot holes here and there, but I’m able to look past them more than most I guess. It’s an incredible show, and I’m sad to see it end, but it’s clear the show had to come to an end soon.
Unless they really screw it up this last episode, I’m very happy with season 8 and the show overall.
As for predictions, I think Jon kills Grey Worm, Dany kills Jon, Bran continues to be useless, and Arya kills Dany. I have NO IDEA what will happen to Drogon, but I hope he eats and kills Sam somehow. As long as Sam finally dies I’ll be cool with the ending.
Dylan’s Final Feelings:
After several weeks of trying, Matt and I have finally convinced Dean to do a little rebranding of the website.
Welcome to Game of Thrones Post (GoTP for short), the best website and message board for Game of Thrones insider information, discussions and analysis! We made the switch at the perfect time, with only one episode left in the entire series. Thankfully we’re getting some spinoffs here soon.
Before I get into the final episode, I’ll talk about my feelings on the season in whole:
People have been giving it an extremely hard time, and at points, rightfully so. The Battle of Winterfell, which was hyped up to be the Battle of the Bastards on steroids, was a total dud. It was dark, and you couldn’t see a thing. The army of the dead was supposed to be the most fearsome army in all of the realm, yet, all the main characters manning the front lines (Jaime Lannister, Brienne of Tarth, Tormund Giantsbane, etc) escape the fight with hardly a scratch! Hell, Jaime was pinned against a wall for half an hour and was chill after. I wanted more death; more consequences. They built the entire White Walker story arc to that point, and they ended it poorly. We’re still confused what Bran’s purpose is outside of being a creeper, why the Night King is supposed to be this ultimate badass (which he isn’t) and where the hell Arya came from to kill him.
As for other parts of the season, the writers have tried to give every character a glorious death—one where they go out in a blaze of glory. That isn’t what Thrones has been about the entire series, though. Sometimes these characters, no matter how much they are loved, have to die in sad, unheroic ways.
Example: Robb Stark. Robb was my boy. I had him pegged to at least make it to Kings Landing with his troops before dying. But nope. He took several arrows to the body and a knife to the belly in a time he and his family were supposed to be celebrating.
I’m sorry, but not every character needs to do something awesome before they die. HBO wasn’t afraid to make us sad in earlier seasons, but now the writers are worried people will be upset if their favorite character dies in an uncool way. Well, guess what? YOU TOOK ROBB FROM ME. YOU CAN INFLICT THE SAME PAIN ON OTHERS AGAIN.
I know people have been complaining about the most recent episode, but I thought it was great, honestly. DEATH TO EVERYONE! Maybe a little too many shots of people getting burned to a crisp, but Aaron Rodgers was one of ‘em, so I’m happy. The only part I didn’t like was the fight between Euron Greyjoy and Jaime. It was absolutely pointless. Everything else was solid—Cleganebowl, Greyworm going rage-mode, both high points in the episode.
Now, on to the last episode. I’ve been pretty poor with my predictions so far this season. I thought Brienne would die (wrong), I put $5 on Gendry dying (wrong), I even wagered a full homemade breakfast on Greyworm’s death (wrong). Sadly for them, we didn’t specify what exactly the breakfast had to entail. So they’ll be getting the Dylan Webber special: a strawberry pop tart (toasted, of course) and some coffee.
I’m feeling good about this episode, though. Daenerys is going to die, easy money. Everyone is going to hate her after she fried all of Kings Landing. Tyrion and Jon (and the rest of the Starks) will not support her claim to the throne. In fact, Arya, after seeing the horrors of the Siege of Kings Landing, has added Daenerys to her list. She wasn’t able to follow through with Cersei or the Mountain, but she will get the job done with Daenerys.
After her death, people will point to Jon to take the throne. But he’ll stand by his word. He wants no part of it. He’s a man of the North, and that’s where he’ll reside. He will nominate his sister, Sansa, to be the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. It seems like a darkhorse pick, but Oddsshark has Sansa with the second-highest betting odds to rule Westeros at +400. Bran, somehow, is the favorite at -500. Does that seem crazy to anyone else? Jon is at +800, which honestly seems like a good bet if you’re actually throwing money on this.
Even though I like the betting line on Jon, give me Sansa on the throne. That’s where my heart is taking me.
Finally, despite the flack it has gotten this year, let us remember all the great seasons GoT has put together. Truly, one of the best shows of my generation, and ever, I would say. Even if you aren’t into this type of stuff (You know, the LotR kind of things), you can’t deny the greatness of Game of Thrones.
Hodor.
Dean’s Final Feelings:
First of all - Hold the Door
I had not watched Game of Thrones until about four weeks ago. I wanted to see what I was missing, and I will say that I was missing a lot - death; rape; incest. Folks are getting their testicles ripped off, which I am not a supporter of… if you are keeping score at home.
GOT is one of the better shows of this decade, which means it is one of the best shows all-time in TV. It shouldn’t be that hard to recognize that we are in the platinum age of television right now. We should, be, too. Showtime, HBO, TNT, streaming services and more have given so much to us in addition to what the networks have always provided.
But this is HBO, and you can do pretty much anything you want on HBO - particularly violence. Frankly, there’s too much violence on GOT. I’m not a big blood guy. I don’t need to see it. I don’t need to see throats being slit, but that’s sort of like going into a sandwich shop and asking for a steak. You have to know what you are getting into.
Anyway, having watched everything in a condensed amount of time I’m not so great at names. I liked the first King we had on the show - Robert Baratheon - because he knew what he was. He whored it up, sure, but his wife, Cersei, was making babies with her brother.
The series was slow at first. I nearly turned it off for good about 15 minutes into it. In fact, I texted a former Dawg Post employee, and said: “How long does it take for this thing to get good?”
The answer was “about” a season.
The writing was very, very good at the start of the show. They set everything up - the fall of Bran Stark from the tower sets up the entire series. If that moment doesn’t happen it would be hard for the rest of the series to move forward.
It was a metaphor - the Starks are going to fall from their lofty perch, and they are going to fall hard, but they are going to survive.
King’s Landing is the most interesting place in the entire series. I could do without Castle Black, the Wall and most certainly Qarth.
The most powerful thing about GOT is the women in the show - each of them seems to be stronger than the men they associate with. Daenerys Targaryen is stronger than her brother and outlives her husband Kahl Drogo. Yara Greyjoy is much tougher than her father or brother… smarter, too. The Stark women tend to outlive the Stark men. Cersei understands the acquisition of power and machiavellian way of using it. Only her brother, Tyrion, who is underestimated because of his dwarfism, rivals her on that front.
Tyrion is one of the best characters in GOT - probably the best. But his buddy Bronn is great as well as the third Lannister and kingslayer/kingmaker Sir Jaime.
Back to the women - Olenna Tyrell and Margaery Tyrell are straight up machiavellian. They get it. The Red Priestess, Melisandre, is up there on the sexual side of things. The same should be said about Ygritte (ouch, too hot).
But the series was so long its easy to get down into the weeds on a lot of things. So I will try to condense because I still have much to say.
First, I am not sure this thing is going to end the way folks “want” it to. That’s not really what GOT has been about, and its not what the show “should” be about. Jon Snow, who has been lied to his entire life, appears to be the hero of the show, but he’s so naive/being a typical dumb man obsessed with sex, that he can’t realize that the woman he loves, the Mother of Dragons, has gone full crazy.
His “sister” Arya Stark, another fan favorite, is a straight-up murderer. Now, she murders folks that people don’t like, but she’s a murderer nonetheless. Brienne of Tarth is probably the noblest person on the show, and she’s in the jacuzzi with Sir Jaime, who can’t get his mind right because he’s, once more, made another baby with his sister.
This sort of thing might be OK in 2019 Alabama, but it's not OK anywhere else… including King's Landing.
Best plot lines in GOT (no order implied)
1. Bran Stark becomes the Three-Eyed Raven/Stephen Hawking
2. How Hodor got his name (really sad)
3. The Red Wedding (Amazingly done, and I didn’t see that one coming)
4. Theon Greyjoy becomes Reek
5. High Sparrow takes over/is allowed to take over
6. Lord Baelish
7. Battle of the Bastards
8. Arya gets revenge for the Red Wedding
9. Any walk of shame
10. The Battle of Blackwater
11. The Hound
12. The Small Council
13. King Joffrey’s sexual perversions
14. Sir Jaime, his hand and his maturation until the end
15. Varys’ birds
16. The Sand sisters - particularly Tyene Sand, who is ready to party…
Overrated plot lines in GOT:
1. The Battle of Winterfell (I could barely make out what was going on, but a good ending)
2. The Wall and anything to do with it (boring)
3. The Mountain
4. Samwell and “family life” with his lover and her kid (fast forward)
5. The Dragons/anything dragon related
6. The Mountain (yeah, he’s in here twice)
7. Winter is coming (we get it)
8. Robin Arryn (Bro, you are breastfeeding at 10?)
9. Areo Hotah (get this guy out of here)
10. Folks coming back from the dead/joining the White Walkers (It was a bit much after a while)
I still get confused about who is who half of the time - there are a lot of folks involved in this deal. And a little like any Coldplay song, these white guys are starting to look and sound a lot alike for me to be able to tell the difference in them.
Also, we’ve got wolves, dragons, witches and wine. There’s a lot going on. Frankly, I am not certain how this is going to get wrapped up, but I am hopeful it gets done well.
The best ended to a series was Mad Men. The Sopranos had a great ending as well, but you were forced to think about it.
Now, and this is the part everyone is going to go nuts about, Game of Thrones is an excellent show. However, it is not as good as Mad Men, The Wire or Arrested Development. This isn’t an opinion. I am not asking for your response. I am telling you what the truth is. However, GOT is very near the top generally speaking. It is in the same slotted territory as Seinfeld, The Sopranos, Breaking Bad, 30 Rock, Frasier and The Office.
That GOT is a drama means folks sort of evaluate it over comedies, and that really shouldn’t be the case. The Office is one of the best TV shows of all time. That it is goofy and fun (most of the time) doesn’t mean it has any less value than GOT or even Breaking Bad.
Dean’s Quick TV rankings of all time
(NOTE: Remember, I am a child of the 1980s/90s, but I didn’t watch Twin Peaks, Lost, The Simpsons, the West Wing, NYPD Blue of the X Files - no judgments rendered towards those shows or at me for not watching them… I just wasn’t into them 1970s and 1960s shows are a tad before my time, and if we are being honest I saw them in reruns on TBS… and they weren’t that great).
1. The Wire - It is the best show in the history of television. It would not have happened without The Sopranos, but it never dragged along at times the way The Sopranos did. And there were no wacky near-death Never Never Land moments in The Wire. It was gritty and real. It is the best show TV has ever seen.
2. Mad Men - A close second is Mad Men, which is an iconic show about advertising in 1960s America. It might not be better than The Wire, but Don Draper puts Mad Men over the top of everyone else. As dysfunctional as Jimmy McNulty is, Draper has actually killed someone, abandoned his country, wife(s) and even his career… Jimmy never killed anyone (that we know of).
Roger Sterling makes Mad Men. He steals every single scene. Peggy is the best. I’m not really into Joan, but she’s going to fight the fight. Mad Men is the best period piece on TV we’ve ever seen. It is a remarkable show. It should be consumed at least once a year.
3. Arrested Development - “I BLUE MYSELF!” What a show, and Arrested Development never drags. The Bluth family is dysfunction at its best. Gob is a moron, which we love. Michael can’t tell he’s fallen in love with a special needs woman because she has a British accent. SMH. That guy is a wreck.
The writing is so crafty. It's the best comedy in the history of TV in my view. 30 Rock and The Office are right on its heels, but even those two don’t write the same way with the same wit. If you’ve not watched Arrested Development before try “The One Where Michael Leaves”
4. The Sopranos - At first, my wife and I thought the cable had been disconnected, but as it turns out it was just Tony getting a bullet in the back of the head… or just the end of the series… they leave that up to you to decide (it was a bullet). It was revolutionary television - and it hit at one of the most important times in our country before and after 9/11.
My only issue with The Sopranos is that it drug on too long near the middle-late part of the show. Still, it is one of the best TV shows of all time. If you want to say it is the best I will listen to your argument.
5. Breaking Bad - What an ending. Everything worked out because Walt died. I could have done without Skyler White, Walt’s wife, who is very much like Carmela Soprano in that crime family. Still, the brother in law. Jessie. The chicken guy.
SAUL!!!!
The cinematography and music for the show were outstanding, and the writing was impressive.
Great show.
6. 30 Rock - In terms of writing and punch lines, it's going to be difficult to be better than 30 Rock. Liz Lemon wants kids, but the only ones she has are the two actors on her show - Jenna Maroney and Tracy Jordan. That trio is awesome.
“I caught crabs in paradise, and yes I mean both kinds of crabs.” - Jenna Maroney.
But like Saul Goodman from Breaking Bad and Roger Sterling in Mad Men, Jack Donaghy makes 30 Rock. You can’t have the show without Jack… and if you did it wouldn’t be in the top ten. Jack is one of the top TV characters of all time.
“I like you. You have the boldness of a much younger woman.” - Jack Donaghy
And who can forget Dr. Leo Spaceman?
“You seem nervous. I could give you something for that. Ah, but you know what? I'm not supposed to have sex with my patients.” - Dr. Leo Spaceman
Yes. More please!!!!
7. The Office - It is true that The Office, it is about Jim and Pam, but Michael, Dwight, the Nard Dawg and the rest of the crew selling paper in the Electric City make for a fun 22 minutes when you need it. Find me a bad The Office episode… you can’t. But I will give you the best one:
Dinner Party. Pam thinks Jan might be poisoning her. Michael has “soft teeth”. Dwight swings by with a date. “That one night… you made everything alright.”
8. The Americans - You wound up cheering for the Soviet spies didn’t you? I did. Philip and Elizabeth Jennings have been sent to D.C. by Mother Russia to cause all sorts of havoc. Philip seems to be skeptical of nearly everything, but Elizabeth will do anything for her country and her kids.
By the end you can see the USSR on the brink of falling into bankruptcy. Communism is failing. They can’t tell if Ronald Reagan is crazy, or if those in power at home have been hijacked by those not as friendly to Elizabeth and Philip.
The music is unreal. The writing is very, very good. And what happens at the end? We know the two children stay in America, but do Elizabeth and Philip return to the USSR as heroes, or are the executed when they arrive?
With or without you? SO AWESOME. Paige is out!
9. Frasier - Probably the best spinoff of all time, Frazier follows Frasier Crane back to his home in Seattle where he lives with his father. Meanwhile, Niles, his brother, falls in love with his father’s caretaker Daphne. It is one of the wittiest shows in TV history. Quick and lighthearted, Frasier is about as well written and performed as it gets.
Niles: “Can you tell me, with any certainty, that in such a vast universe there isn't intelligent life on other planets?”
Frasier: “At the moment, I'm not sure there's intelligent life in this kitchen.”
10. Saturday Night Live - I love watching old SNLs. In fact, they make me kind of sad. Often the musical acts have passed on; they remind us of a time that’s gone now… only frozen in that moment in time on SNL. Some of the actors on the stage have passed away, but many are comic geniuses. Eddie Murphy. Will Ferrell. Tina Fey. Tina Fey. Jimmy Fallon. Phil Hartman. Darrell Hammond. Tracy Morgan.
SNL is a time capsule for that moment in time in our country’s history. It is a more important show than folks realize.
Also Don’t Miss:
Cheers - Better at the start than the end
Friends - Man, those three women were something else
Sesame Street - Solid. Always solid. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10... 11, 12
South Park - Always sticking authority in the eye
My So-Called Life - Tucker High. 1993.
The Colbert Report - Too funny.
Yo Gabba Gabba! - If you get high, you need to get high before putting this one on.
The Wonder Years - Another 1990s show - about coming of age in the 1960s.
Chappelle’s Show - A great show during a wild time. Clayton Bigsby, the black white supremacist
In Living Color - I used to watch this on Fox every Friday night when I was younger
Homeland - Great, great show. I can't wait to see what Carrie's crazy ass will do next
Jeopardy - What is you can keep your mind sharp every night?
The Golden Girls - This is a great show that is very well written
Seinfeld - Nothing like it before or since. Game changer.
Better Call Saul - A damned good follow to Breaking Bad
Big Brother - Just watch it. Strategy. Skill. It is a good program. Corny, but good.
Will & Grace - Should be Jack & Karen. Jack is unstoppable.
Dr. Katz, Professional Therapist - We LOVED this show in college. AWESOME.