Bulldawg1 said:

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You were around and old enough to remember the 50s and 60s? For some reason I thought you were younger. Dorothy Counts photo and the story was incredibly moving. It's hard to believe people acted like that not that long ago.

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A hospital in Atlanta desegregated in the 70's.

The laws changed sooner but adoption was slower.

This tradition did not have "terrible origins"
Well it did because the origin was a UF national championship, but it's not racist. Just because the term"gator bait" meant something racial and had 150 years ago does not mean the chant, developed completely independently, is also racist. They are two completely separate things.

Yes, Brown V Board of Education ruling was in 1954. The Civil Rights Act was signed in 1964. Most all schools were fully desgregated by 1968.
I was born in downtown Atlanta in the 70s, in a very mixed area. I was completely unaware of that Atlanta hospital and any segregation policy while growing up, and was also completely unaware of skin color - other than my parents and I had many friends that looked different than us. I didn't know skin color was a thing, until me and my friend were jumped by a gang in a secluded area bc our skin color was different. 12v2 when 11 yrs old is super scary. I had a Civil Rights writing class FR yer in college, and then later a history class. I got to interview a man who knew and marched with MLK, and talk to a few others who also knew and worked with him - including Joseph Lowery. It wasn't until then, that my eyes were really opened to many awful things that happenend during that period.

I wasn't around in the 50s for sure. But it was a longer process for sure.

ssidedawg said:

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Trackdawg073 said:

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This tradition of Florida's was never "steeped in racism" , the president of the university said that it had never been associated with racism on campus. Like what? The thousands of African American players who went through UF never had an issue with it and actively participated in the chant. But now we've decided that to our 21st century morals and values it's racist and it must go.

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Yes.

It takes time to knock down all these things. In my lifetime, in the South, we had segregation. "Thousands of African Americans" went through that system too.

No doubt some of these traditions had terrible origins and then years later it was diluted to the point where it was just a fun tradition. I get it. But after knowing its origin and you are still clinging to that tradition, well, thats a personal decision. For me, the game is what matters. Not some song or chant. Plus, the fact that 90% of the players are African American, well, thats also an issue we should be sensitive to....

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This isn't at all what happened with the UF chant.

Literally none of that applies to the current situation.

Facts and circumstances matter.

ssidedawg said:

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tdperk said:

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ssidedawg said:

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sicemdawgs77 said:

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ssidedawg said:

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I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.

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Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?

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Well, a lot of people who live in the South also find some the "traditions" outdated.

Yes, it isnt our job to get their approval but we should want to be more progressive.

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Well label me a problem then. I like a whole lot of the southern traditions and ways. I'm not even gonna begin to label them but none of them make me a racist. The south has always done things different from other parts of the country. Grits is a southern tradition. Most people up north don't like them and that's fine. They can have their cream of wheat.
I got no intentions of changing me to meet the approval of someone else.

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Did you think I was talking about food?

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No I didn't think you were referring to food. You said southern traditions. Encompassing all things southern.
I don't see things the way that you apparently see things. We could have a long debate over all the things going on in this country but we would have to have that in person because there ain't no way I can type that much.
Slavery was wrong. Mistreating another human being or allowing someone to mistreat another human being is not ok to me, but pissing and moaning every f'ing day about being mistreated is over the top. Hearing someone say that I have white privileged, knowing I have worked my butt off for everything that I have and watching my parents go to work everyday, all day to have something in life and seeing my dad and uncles put water and electricity in the old shacks my grandparents lived in just pisses me off.
This isn't the 50's or 60's. This country has came a long way since then.
I just hate the double standard that exists today. If you are a white person and most especially a white male living in this country today, your a target.

No, I am not saying "all things Southern". Not at all.

I think a better term is White Fragility. A LOT of white men are scared that their advantage may disappear. Like it or not, believe it or not, a white guy has a leg up in almost every social situation. The vast majority of white guys dont need this perk as their own merits are enough. But there are some white guys who coasted through life, lazy, uneducated etc who see their one ace card being ripped away. There is a good ole boy network that still exists. As a white guy, you have seen or heard it more than once. You know it. FYI, its the worst kept secret in America.

On the other hand, people of color just want to be judged as individuals on their own personal merit. If you think thats incorrect, well......

This is the exact opposite in South Africa currently.

Bulldawg1 said:

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This is the exact opposite in South Africa currently.

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And whats your point?

The whites in Africa violently colonized SA. It is an African country. Surely you see a difference between SA and US? In an ironic twist, we forced Africans to this country.

Also, the American Indian says "Hello".

I am part Native American Indian, and am very well versed in the history. Not sure why you are saying "hello". My relatives and ancestors were and have been persecuted, but we are also not looting and killing people in the streets of big cities en masse.

I also know white people who live in SA, who had absolutely nothing to do with apartheid - but they live in fear bc they are white - they are not treated with privilege. What you are saying is not universal... and what does it really matter why? That is dumb. It's all wrong - no reason makes it right/ok. Racism is bad - there is no excuse for it. It's not ok for some to be and others to not be - none of it is ok - just for the record.

Bulldawg1 said:

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I am part Native American Indian, and am very well versed in the history. Not sure why you are saying "hello". My relatives and ancestors were and have been persecuted, but we are also not looting and killing people in the streets of big cities en masse.

I also know white people who live in SA, who had absolutely nothing to do with apartheid - but they live in fear bc they are white - they are not treated with privilege. What you are saying is not universal... and what does it really matter why? That is dumb. It's all wrong - no reason makes it right/ok. Racism is bad - there is no excuse for it. It's not ok for some to be and others to not be - none of it is ok - just for the record.

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American Indian = Native African (black) was the point of the "Hello" as your post was riddled with irony.

The white people in SA were all a part of apartheid. They ALL either benefited from it's policies and/or were complicit. And that is fairly recent history...1993! The black Africans are in their native country. Thats their homeland for centuries. The white people there are colonists. Current white SA's may have been born there and call it home but thats their choice now. Demanding equal rights after that crap is pissing in the wind.

America is completely different, not better as far as how it went down, but different. If American Indians were 75%+ of the population and in the 1990's we had our version of Apartheid, its a comparison.

ssidedawg said:

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No, I am not saying "all things Southern". Not at all.

I think a better term is White Fragility. A LOT of white men are scared that their advantage may disappear. Like it or not, believe it or not, a white guy has a leg up in almost every social situation. The vast majority of white guys dont need this perk as their own merits are enough. But there are some white guys who coasted through life, lazy, uneducated etc who see their one ace card being ripped away. There is a good ole boy network that still exists. As a white guy, you have seen or heard it more than once. You know it. FYI, its the worst kept secret in America.

On the other hand, people of color just want to be judged as individuals on their own personal merit. If you think thats incorrect, well......

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See that's where we differ. Not all white people have a leg up. There are PEOPLE that have a leg up, but they come in all races and colors. I don't buy the white privilege. Hell, if your a certain race, you get selected over a white male now. College entrance, just for one example. Long story short, years ago, my wife work for a huge trucking company in griffin, ga. They needed to hire a couple drivers. They had qualified applicants but could not hire any of those guys. Want to guess why?? Because they needed to hire a couple black drivers. They didn't have any black applicants at all, but weren't allowed to hire any of the white applicants. True story. This was in the mid 90's. I worked for Brown Transport in the early 90's. I drove a switch tractor on the university ave yard. Came time to qualify some guys for city work. I got skipped over for 4 black guys that had less experience driving than I did. Guess why?? Not enough black city drivers. Gotta fill the quota. Don't tell me white men have a leg up. Just because you say something doesn't make it true.
Racism exist in this world. There isn't anything anyone is gonna do to change it, but it is not systemic and your not gonna convince me other wise. There is always gonna be people with hate in their heart. I choose to believe they are few and far between in this country in the year 2020. And it isn't one group hating on the other. When Racism rears it's head, it's subject to come from any color of skin.
Southern traditions is what started this conversation. I love my southern heritage and my southern traditions. No, I don't fly a confederate flag. Don't own one. Don't have any bumper stickers with the confederate flag on my vehicles. I don't think my wife even owns any white sheets at all and I don't belong to any groups or clubs besides Dawgpost. I'm not " that kinda person"!
But I don't see how tearing down statues and doing away with the gator chomp is gonna fix anything. Those things don't hurt anyone. Everybody is offended by everything nowadays. It is sickening the stuff that is " being removed" because someone is offended.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. I know it's stupid, but why do we have a whole month dedicated to black history. Don't misunderstand, I could give two ****s less if we had 12 months of black history. That's not my point. Point is, we have a whole month of black history all over tv in February, but let's go tear down some white guys statue cause we offended. Now here we are in June and we get Juneteenth that folks is wanting to make a national holiday. It's a double standard.
Here is another stupid one for ya, all black universities. Every color fought to end segregation, but we have all black universities. I guess white people could attend grambling university or Morehouse college but I can only imagine that the experience would not be fulfilling for an Asian, Hispanic or white student. If one was even accepted to the school. Do they even hire "other people" as teachers and coaches at those schools or are those reserved for African Americans? Point being there is a double standard.
If billy joe or Bobby sue wants to hold on to there traditions, why should they give a crap if someone is offended? Isn't it the American way to live how you want in a free society?

I think you actually proved my point.

Lol, well, if what you believe what you said is true, I have a good deal on some ocenfront property right be the Appalachian Trail. Also, the Star Wars is real, and I can get you a hunting license to hunt BigFoot's grandson. Its worth it. You lure him in with snipe bait.

The debate is always over when on person just starts hurling nonsensical items at the wall. Nothing stuck.....

ssidedawg said:

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I think you actually proved my point.

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I really don't see how, but that's ok.

ssidedawg said:

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The debate is always over when on person just starts hurling nonsensical items at the wall. Nothing stuck.....

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Or they just ignore the original point...

What got us here was the UF chant which has no origins in racism that anyone actually can draw a line to.

You went off the deep end of white fragility / guilt which had nothing to do with the post... which is kind of their point I think.

We had fake outrage over something that actually isn't "steeped" in racism and something literally almost no one cared about until it got brought up. Somehow this went down the wild path of segregation, white fragility, apartheid South Africa (which I doubt many people have a serious understanding of to begin with...) etc.

I mean I guess we should bring up Rwanda's genocide and how it was backed by white countries? I mean I really don't know how that matters in this conversation but it seems to.

You are simply just describing your own posts on this.

Good one.