Crean

5,023 Views | 27 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by Monkdawg
Monkdawg
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Someone posted a rumor on another board that Crean could be out as HC. He's got a damn big buyout right now, so I don't know if Josh Brooks will make that move, although someone could lure him away, I suppose. One thing that disturbs me is that Crean has not bought a house in Athens. He currently lives in the Georgia Center, I believe, and commutes back and forth to Florida where he maintains a residence. If that is true, I have a problem with a coach not committing to the program enough to move his family to Athens. That's a set-up for a short timer.

I was not in favor of the Crean hire initially, but once he was hired I have backed the guy. He's done a great job promoting the program and drumming up fan support, but he has had less success on the court than I had hoped. True, Fox left him with next to nothing in the way of talent. But 3 years in, I can't say that Crean has significantly upgraded the talent on the team. We were far too young to win last year, and we were too small and couldn't shoot consistently enough to win this year. Crean's biggest problems are two-fold - he hasn't recruited well, particularly in state. Other than Anthony Edwards, the top talent in the state has been lost, mostly going to Auburn. Pearl has made a living on GA talent. He's killing us. Losing assistant coach Abdur-Rahim has really hurt our recruiting, with Jonas Hayes not staying on staff when Crean came in. Dollar has done nothing to bring in talent. He is dead weight on the bench. Neither of the other 2 recruiting-eligible coaches on the bench has southern roots. Our best players are rising juniors in the class signed mostly by Abdur-Rahim. Crean just hasn't signed the players he needs to. Plus, he has brought in some guys that are just dead weight, taking up space on the bench.

Second, our TOs, shot selection and defensive lapses are tied directly to coaching. Crean clearly emphasizes offense, but that's just one phase of the game. Fox was probably too controlling and defensive-oriented, but Crean is 180 degrees the opposite. Crean allows too much freedom offensively and just doesn't care about defense. For us to be successful, particularly when we don't have the talent others do, we have to defend and do the little things, like not turn the ball over and take good shots, to win games.

Perhaps the 2 problems are tied together. Bring in better talent and we shoot better, defend better and don't turn the ball over as much.
Nostradawgus
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Given the buy-out figure I would be shocked if he were fired. If he is, there is for sure a new Sheriff in town at BM.

I am among the most critical of Crean but am willing to give him next year - but it would be NCAA or bust for me.

I think you have nailed the recruiting issues dead on. Felton, Fox and Crean have made bizarro decisions on assistants. We have not recruited consistently well since Tevester Anderson.
Monkdawg
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Yeah, I can't imagine firing him in a year when we have lost so much revenue because of the pandemic. We have shown slight improvement in our record each of the 3 years under Crean. There needs to be significant improvement next season. I also want to see Crean add some good players late and get rid of some of the dead wood on our bench. The 2 commitments so far are not encouraging.
fladawg59
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Crean has been a disappointment but there has been improvement. We do have three very good players returning.
Wheeler, kamara and KD. When was the last time that happened? Let's see how next year goes and then decide.
Nostradawgus
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The two commits we got will be very solid players - 2-3 years from now. Crean needs to win now.

Foster could help. Crean better hope the three grad transfers return.

Nostradawgus
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The rumors of Crean being looked at by Penn State are also kind of swirling around so there's that.
UgaBoz53
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great write up Monk
is the buyout around 9mill?
ATLSTNMTN53DAWG
Monkdawg
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That's my understanding. I don't know for a fact what the buyout is exactly. We have always been know for penny-pinching and saving our money. I think we finally let Fox go when his buyout became very low. With the pandemic and the loss of revenue, I just can't see us changing that philosophy.
Monkdawg
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My guess is that Foster goes to the G League or developmental league or whatever it's called these days. Hope I'm wrong.
UgaBoz53
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Monkdawg said:

That's my understanding. I don't know for a fact what the buyout is exactly. We have always been know for penny-pinching and saving our money. I think we finally let Fox go when his buyout became very low. With the pandemic and the loss of revenue, I just can't see us changing that philosophy.
I am not the biggest fan of TC.
I love his passion on gamedays and hopefully that passion is matched at practice.
I would love to see a fresh young coach in here at some point. I am sick and tired of watching other football schools have success and we give the same old excuses year after year.
ATLSTNMTN53DAWG
Monkdawg
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I totally agree on your last point. There is no reason we cannot be just as successful as other so-called "football schools" in basketball. The fans have shown their support; we have won under Harrick, Durham and even Fox to a degree; there is tons of basketball talent in GA. The administration has shown it will spend money on basketball, which is after all our second largest money-maker in the athletic department. Just no reason we should not be a viable program. I've said this for over 40 years.
Nostradawgus
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Monk - we will spend money on a head coach. We are dead last in the conference on men's basketball expenditures. The reported recruiting budget was $250k. That is how we "make" money with hoops.
Monkdawg
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I had heard we were at the bottom in spending. If that's true, that has to change.
dawgpostsucks
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Monkdawg said:

I had heard we were at the bottom in spending. If that's true, that has to change.
UGA Men's Basketball's Expenses from 1 July 2019 - 30 June 2020: $8,304,553 (note: Hoop Dawgs generated a $1,347,178 net profit in Fiscal Year 2020)

- Head Coach Salary & Bonuses: $3,363,066
- Assistant Coaches Salaries & Bonuses: $988,001
- Team Travel: $807,930
- Game Expenses (e.g., officials, security, event staff, ambulance): $685,954
- Support Staff Compensation: $681,313
- Visiting Institution Participation Guarantees: $552,000
- Athletic Student Aid: $539,583
- Administrative Overhead/Security/Facilities Maintenance/Utilities/Equipment Repair: $260,761
- Recruiting: $233,331
- Sports Equipment, Supplies, & Uniforms: $128,569
- Student-Athletes Meals (non-travel): $61,894
- Basketball Camp: $2,151

***

SEC Men's Basketball Expenses from 1 July 2018 - 30 June 2019:

1. Kentucky: $20,202,558
2. Alabama: $15,966,875
3. Texas A&M: $11,818,860
4. Tennessee: $10,554,613
5. Auburn: $10,536,653
6. Arkansas: $10,440,326
7. Vanderbilt: $9,901,818
8. LSU: $9,512,515
9. Ole Miss: $9,432,295
10. Florida: $9,317,385
11. South Carolina: $8,561,964
12. Missouri: $8,255,259
13. Mississippi State: $8,030,614
14. UGA: $7,756,002 (note: Hoop Dawgs generated a $2,937,801 net profit in Fiscal Year 2019)

***

UGA Men's Basketball Expenses from 1 July 2017 - 30 June 2018: $8,539,387 (note: Hoop Dawgs generated a $1,713,031 net profit in Fiscal Year 2018)

***

SEC Men's Basketball Expenses from 1 July 2016 - 30 June 2017:


1. Kentucky: $19,180,059
2. Missouri: $10,065,698
3. Arkansas: $9,790,947
4. Alabama: $9,681,264
5. Auburn: $9,632,816
6. South Carolina: $9,282,730
7. Texas A&M: $8,953,278
8. Ole Miss: $7,588,764
9. Florida: $7,207,469
10. Vanderbilt: $7,168,389
11. Tennessee: $6,977,691
12. Mississippi State: $6,563,856
13. LSU: $6,516,369
14. UGA: $6,237,492 (note: Hoop Dawgs generated a $3,221,759 net profit in Fiscal Year 2017)

***

SEC Men's Basketball Expenses from 1 July 2014 - 30 June 2015:

1. Kentucky: $20,009,991
2. Florida: $10,103,924
3. Vanderbilt: $9,919,002
4. Auburn: $8,818,072
5. Arkansas: $8,425,122
6. Alabama: $7,164,296
7. Texas A&M: $6,876,558
8. S. Carolina: $6,852,555
9. Ole Miss: $6,135,641
10. Tennessee: $6,068,357
11. Louisiana St: $6,062,843
12. UGA: $5,933,136 (note: Hoop Dawgs generated a $3,096,554 net profit in Fiscal Year 2015)
13. Missouri: $5,746,352
14. Mississippi St: $5,167,067
Nostradawgus
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So Crean's salary is about 37% of total expenditure budget. My guess is that is not totally out of line with conference peers. Alabama appears to be an anomaly. What the hell are they spending on?

But that $233k recruiting budget. Oof.
Monkdawg
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Well, that just shows that often you get what you pay for....
dawgpostsucks
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Monkdawg said:

Well, that just shows that often you get what you pay for....


That's what I've posted on 'The Porch' multiple times. Few seem to care. Some think it doesn't matter. Others are content that the profits generated are used to enhance UGA Athletic's "rainy day fund" (even though they've donated $99M in profits from football and men's basketball to the university since 2006).
Nostradawgus
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AFD, I'm going to believe that mass resignation to the futility of our investment in men's basketball only manifests on The Porch as lack of care.

But I also believe one day we're going to prioritize men's hoops and it will be glorious.
Monkdawg
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There may be times when spending doesn't correlate to success, but those times are outliers. You gotta spend to win. That recruiting number is just ridiculously low.
dawgpostsucks
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UGA Men's Basketball Coaches Records:

Walter Forbes: 2-2 (50%)
C. O. Heidler: 16-6 (72.7%)
W. A. Cunningham: 10-6 (62.5%)
Howell Peacock: 30-7 (81.1%)
Alfred Scott: 6-1 (85.7%)
Kennon Mott: 5-3 (62.5%)
Herman Stegeman: 170-78 (68.5%)
1932-'38: Rex Enright: 69-51 (57.5%) overall, 23-27 (46%) SEC
1938: Frank Johnson: 8-5 (61.5%) overall, 4-3 (57.1%) SEC
1938-'47: Elmer Lampe: 82-84 (49.9%) overall, 37-50 (42.5%) SEC
1947-'50: Ralph "Shug" Jordan: 44-39 (53%) overall, 16-28 (36.4%) SEC
1950-'51: Jim Whatley: 24-18 (57.1%) overall, 12-13 (48%) SEC
1952-'65: Harbin "Red" Lawson: 112-241 (31.7%) overall, 56-141 (28.4%) SEC
1966-'73: Ken Rosenmond: 92-111 (45.3%) overall, 60-104 (36.6%) SEC
1974-'78: John Guthrie: 46-86 (34.8%) overall, 20-70 (22.2%) SEC
1979-'95: Hugh Durham: 298-216 (58%) overall, 148-150 (49.7%) SEC
1995-'97: Orlando "Tubby" Smith: 45-19 (70.3%) overall, 19-13 (59.4%) SEC
1997-'99: Ron Jirsa: 35-30 (53.8%) overall; 13-19 (40.6%) SEC
1999-2003: Jim Harrick: 67-53 (55.8%) overall; 33-31 (51.6%) SEC
2003-'09: Dennis Felton: 84-91 (48%) overall; 26-59 (30.6%) SEC
2009-'18: Mark Fox: 163-133 (55.1%) overall, 77-79 (49.4%) SEC
2018-present: Tom Crean: 41-49 (45.6%) overall, 15-42 (26.3%) SEC
dawgpostsucks
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UGA signed 1 of 20 top-100 national recruits from the state of Georgia the past four classes (2 of 21 if KD Johnson, 2020 overall #95 prospect, who played his senior season at Hargrave Military Academy in Virginia is included):

2021:

  • 5* PF Jabari Smith (overall #5) > Auburn
  • 5* SF Matthew Cleveland (overall #21) > FSU
  • 4* SG Kowacie Reeves (overall #56) > Florida
  • 4* C Ryan Mutumbo (overall #78) > Georgetown
  • 4* SG Chance Moore (overall #85) > Arkansas

2020:

  • 5* C Walker Kessler (overall #22, UGA legacy recruit) > UNC
  • 5* PG Sharife Cooper (overall #24) > Auburn
  • 4* PF JT Thor (overall #51) > Auburn
  • 4* PG Dwon Odom (overall #56) > Xavier
  • 4* PG Deivon Smith (overall #61) > Mississippi State
  • 4* C Kai Sotto (overall #64) > NBA G League
  • 4* CG Eric Gaines (overall #94) > LSU

2019:

  • 5* SG Anthony Edwards (overall #2) > UGA
  • 4* SF Isaac Okoro (overall #36) > Auburn
  • 4* SG Marcus Watson (overall #88) > Oklahoma State

2018:

  • 5* PF EJ Montgomery (overall #9) > Kentucky
  • 5* PG Ashton Hagans (overall #12) > Kentucky [note: was committed to UGA from 21 Dec 17 - 26 Feb 18]
  • 4* SG Will Richardson (overall #46) > Oregon
  • 4* SF Khavon Moore (overall #54) > Texas Tech
  • 4* SF Landers Nolley (overall #67) > Virginia Tech
dawgpostsucks
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UGA Men's Basketball:

National championships: 0
SEC Regular Season Championships: 1 (1990)
Final Four appearances: 1 (1983)
Best-ever AP Top 25 Poll Ranking: #10 on 5 December 1983
Last ranking in the AP Top 25 Poll: #24 on 10 January 2011
All-time record: 1,453-1,341 (52.0%)
Record vs. current SEC opponents: 645-885 (42.2%)

vs. Ole Miss: 73-46 (61.3%)
vs. Mississippi State: 56-56 (50.0%)
vs. Texas A&M: 5-5 (50.0%)
vs. Auburn: 95-97 (49.8%)
vs. South Carolina: 56-60 (48.3%)
vs. Missouri: 8-9 (47.1%)
vs. Florida: 100-117 (46.1%)
vs. LSU: 46-58 (44.2%)
vs. Arkansas: 16-24 (40.0%)
vs. Tennessee: 60-96 (38.7%)
vs. Vanderbilt: 54-91 (37.2%)
vs. Alabama: 51-97 (34.5%)
vs. Kentucky: 25-129 (16.2%)
Nostradawgus
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UGA hoops was bouncing right along until 1952, then decided to take a 25 year detour into the hoops desert. The same desert we find ourselves again beginning with Felton. And I really thought that was a home run hire. Oof.

It is amazing to me that Fox has roughly the same winning percentage as Durham, but barely even a fraction of the post season resume.

And that Crean trails Felton in overall winning percentage. Double oof.
Monkdawg
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You know, we had hired Babe McCarthy back in the day, but he passed on the job to coach in the ABA. We got stuck with Guthrie.
That would have made a huge difference in our basketball legacy (or lack thereof). McCarthy was a helluva coach.

https://www.nytimes.com/1973/09/13/archives/georgia-picks-guthrie.html
Monkdawg
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How far back did losing Tubby set the program? And hiring Jirsa was a huge mistake.
Monkdawg
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We are getting trounced in-state in recruiting.
dawgpostsucks
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UGA Athletics generated a $40,538,013 profit last fiscal year (i.e., 1 July 2019 - 30 June 2020). Football and Men's Basketball are the university's only two intercollegiate programs out of 21 that generate annual profits. So the money is there, but UGA Athletics isn't committed to anything but increasing its reserve fund (since 2004), donating profits back to the university ($99M since 2006), and football (since 2016).

If UGA Athletics reinvested 100% of men's basketball profits on the team, then Crean would have a better recruiting budget, support staff (e.g., analytics, basketball ops, S&C), and assistants. Then talent, coaching, and results would improve.

Operational expenses for some teams in the 2020-'21 NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament:

Louisville: $19,180,078
FSU: $16,773,013
Alabama: $15,966,875
UCLA: $15,468,381
Syracuse: $14,845,555
Villanova: $14,428,932
Michigan State: $14,395,851
Georgetown: $13,573,946
Virginia: $13,400,721
Kansas: $12,547,439
Texas Tech: $12,338,645
Texas: $11,649,912
UNC: $11,204,115
Ohio State: $10,996,364
West Virginia: $10,798,893
Tennessee: $10,554,613
Gonzaga: $10,496,251
Illinois: $10,480,939
Arkansas: $10,440,326
Oregon: $10,348,633
Oklahoma: $10,072,404
Michigan: $9,874,360
Baylor: $9,860,432
Purdue: $9,604,624
LSU: $9,512,515
UConn: $9,325,922
Florida: $9,317,385
Houston: $9,219,796
Maryland: $9,163,793
Virginia Tech: $8,525,606

NCAA Tournament / NIT non-qualifier:

UGA: $7,756,002
Nostradawgus
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So Tubby was not the first time KY screwed us with coaches.

Great piece of history. Yes, you wonder if that was not a complete fortune changer that echoes still today.

What if Portland had drafted Michael Jordan kind of stuff.

And fascinating - looks like Babe took the Colonels job and was out of a job - and basketball coaching - two years later when he was replaced by ..... future Hawks coach Hubie Brown. Despite the fact Babe was named ABA Coach of the Year.
Monkdawg
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McCarthy died in 1975. I think he had a heart attack IIRC. Only 52.
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