Florida cancels "Gator Bait" chant due to racial issues
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Last: 4 yr ago by ssidedawg
"While I know of no evidence of racism associated with our "Gator Bait" cheer at UF sporting events, there is horrific historic racist imagery associated with the phrase. Accordingly University Athletics and the Gator Band will discontinue the use of the cheer."
maybe Rocky Top will be next
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It was about throwing slaves who were toddlers into the swap
I think it's disgusting. I never knew that.
I think it's disgusting. I never knew that.
It's about time. I know more often than not during the Spurrier and Meyer years at UF I was offended when they did it while handing us our fannies.
Sure hope our new laser light show and lighting up the stands at the beginning of the fourth quarter isn't deemed offensive to those sensitive to lights.
Crazy times we're witnessing.
Sure hope our new laser light show and lighting up the stands at the beginning of the fourth quarter isn't deemed offensive to those sensitive to lights.
Crazy times we're witnessing.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29326505/georgia-redcoat-band-replacing-tara-theme-georgia-my-mindLamar said:
It's about time. I know more often than not during the Spurrier and Meyer years at UF I was offended when they did it while handing us our fannies.
Sure hope our new laser light show and lighting up the stands at the beginning of the fourth quarter isn't deemed offensive to those sensitive to lights.
Crazy times we're witnessing.
This is fing insane.
We've gotten to the point where if a SINGLE person alleges something is racist, we must destroy. Frankly it's kinda disgusting because it hides stuff that is actually racist when you focus on stupid s*** like this. Focus on the real issues, not what the marching band plays after a game or a cfb chant. Focusing on this crap is ridiculous and counter productive. I hate Florida more than anything too, and I think this is freaking ridiculous. How does ending a team cheer, that 99.99999999999% of people aren't bothered by, do anything to actually combat instances of real racism in this country. It doesn't, it's performative virtue signaling to satisfy a Twitter mob that is completely non-representative of American society at large. Shame on the spineless leaders
Will Sanford Stadium be next? check out the Sanford family name in Georgia history.. 65
65dawg
I shudder to think what is about to become of the battle hymn of the bulldog nation
Good. I know people from Florida that are Canes fans because of that chant. They not only knew the history but it touched their families.
My only reservation was that there is so much forgotten history behind probably hundreds of established traditions that it's likely to cause blowback.
Never thought I'd see the day they'd address these things. Figured it'd be the yoke of memory forever.
But once recruits know the meaning, you'd better address it, I guess.
Wow.
Snopes has links to Miami herald and other primary source materials stating the history behind the practice and also the colloquialism: https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/06/09/black-children-alligator-bait/
My only reservation was that there is so much forgotten history behind probably hundreds of established traditions that it's likely to cause blowback.
Never thought I'd see the day they'd address these things. Figured it'd be the yoke of memory forever.
But once recruits know the meaning, you'd better address it, I guess.
Wow.
Snopes has links to Miami herald and other primary source materials stating the history behind the practice and also the colloquialism: https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/06/09/black-children-alligator-bait/
65dawg said:
Will Sanford Stadium be next? check out the Sanford family name in Georgia history.. 65
Doak Campbell (FSU's stadium namesake) was definitely a racist. Changing that name makes sense.
Campbell was strongly opposed to the admission of African-American students to Florida State. "Campbell exacted deference from the campus community, suppressed the liberal editorial policy of the semi-weekly Florida Flambeau newspaper, and refused to tolerate any breach of racial segregation. He forced the campus chapter of the American Association of University Professors (AAUP) to cancel a regional conference at FSU when he learned that black faculty members from the neighboring Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University (FAMU) planned to attend." Campbell attempted to ban student participation at pro-integration meetings, as well as to prohibit the school newspaper, the Flambeau, from writing about racial segregation
That Snopes link also touches on Jews in the same context in Egypt.Firebrand said:
Good. I know people from Florida that are Canes fans because of that chant. They not only knew the history but it touched their families.
My only reservation was that there is so much forgotten history behind probably hundreds of established traditions that it's likely to cause blowback.
Never thought I'd see the day they'd address these things. Figured it'd be the yoke of memory forever.
But once recruits know the meaning, you'd better address it, I guess.
Wow.
Snopes has links to Miami herald and other primary source materials stating the history behind the practice and also the colloquialism: https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/06/09/black-children-alligator-bait/
Also, the end is pretty important in that Snopes article-
Apart from crocodilians and babies, the common threads running through all these reports are racism, xenophobia, and the utter lack of specifics. If we take them seriously, we have no choice but to conclude that using human infants as alligator bait was incredibly widespread at some point in time; yet, we have not encountered a single report that included enough detail to verify that even one such incident actually took place. They're just tales.
We are unable to prove the negative, of course. We cannot demonstrate that no infant anywhere, irrespective of color or creed, was ever used as reptile bait. But neither has anyone proved to date that infants were, in fact, used in such a manner.
We checked this conclusion with Patricia Turner, who has probably done more research on the "alligator bait" motif than anyone else in the world, asking whether she had ever come across information suggesting that the phenomenon might be real. "I have not seen any evidence to suggest that it was true," she said, adding that it would have been all the more unlikely during the era of slavery, when a black child would have been a much more valuable commodity than an alligator.
Regardless, it is true that the notion that dark-skinned children were the favorite food of alligators and crocodiles, like so many other demeaning stereotypes about people of African descent, was already commonplace in the antebellum United States ("they prefer the flesh of a negro to any other delicacy," Fraser's Magazine reported as a scientific fact in 1850). It's therefore plausible to suppose that the epithet "alligator bait" did not follow from, but rather preceded the existence of stories depicting black children as such, which would relegate those stories to mere folklore.
Trackdawg073 said:
I shudder to think what is about to become of the battle hymn of the bulldog nation
It's history, far as I know was an anti slavery song. When I was a kid I knew people who liked UGA that had never been to the state of Georgia because we use that song.
I can't speak to any other traditions. But I have never heard anything. I'm also no expert.
Honestly, some of these issues are things that people from generations before me never forgot. And it impacted fan affiliation for families even after they'd forgotten why they hated specific programs.
Nevermind. I see your edit. & I'm truly not going to argue about this. Enjoy your day.
Here is a short story on Howe wrote Battle Hymn.
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/civil-war-music-battle-hymn-republic
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/primary-sources/civil-war-music-battle-hymn-republic
I'm 32 so I don't think my grand uncle would have been subject to slavery which ended 150+ years ago. Regardless it seems from the article you posted it wouldn't have happened to my grand uncle.Firebrand said:
It does. But if you knew your grand uncle or another family member went "missing" and then was tossed alive to variations of that chant or colloquialism....who cares?
Could be shared by dozens of groups. But it was definitely used by trash humans in any context.
But to a greater point, I don't think something (allegedly according to Snopes) happening 150+ years ago would be something that made me like or dislike a college athletic team. I'd love to know the % of people who had any idea about this... I'm guessing its far under .05% of America?
If that were the case, then Ole Miss is in a really tough spot with Black America. I'm not sure how anyone goes there. To Ryan's point, FSU is in big trouble too. Lots of places are.
I mean PSU recently had a massive, long running, scandal of child sex abuse. How can anyone go there or be a fan now under these rules.
I'm headed up there right now to demonstrate....WHO'S WITH ME!!!ahurst344 said:
maybe Rocky Top will be next
Really nothing to argue about.Firebrand said:
Nevermind. I see your edit. & I'm truly not going to argue about this. Enjoy your day.
I just read the Snopes article...
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
ssidedawg said:
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?
sicemdawgs77 said:ssidedawg said:
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?
Well, a lot of people who live in the South also find some the "traditions" outdated.
Yes, it isnt our job to get their approval but we should want to be more progressive.
The South doesn't own a monopoly on racism and oppression. The rest of the country can think what they want. And from living in many other countries the US is far from the most racist country in the world.
I'm too ugly or something
LOL, OK. "Not the most racist" is quite the accomplishment.StalkinDawg said:
The South doesn't own a monopoly on racism and oppression. The rest of the country can think what they want. And from living in many other countries the US is far from the most racist country in the world.
ssidedawg said:sicemdawgs77 said:ssidedawg said:
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?
Well, a lot of people who live in the South also find some the "traditions" outdated.
Yes, it isnt our job to get their approval but we should want to be more progressive.
If progressive mean places like Seattle and San Francisco, just to name a few, no thanks.
Racism exists everywhere. The protests that have gone on outside of the US calling out racism in the US are hypocritical.
I'm too ugly or something
sicemdawgs77 said:ssidedawg said:
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?
Yeah I don't nor have I ever or has any of my poor ass relatives ever owned any slaves or even had time to run around lynching black folk. I really care less how the rest of the country looks at or feels about the south.
ssidedawg said:sicemdawgs77 said:ssidedawg said:
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?
Well, a lot of people who live in the South also find some the "traditions" outdated.
Yes, it isnt our job to get their approval but we should want to be more progressive.
Well label me a problem then. I like a whole lot of the southern traditions and ways. I'm not even gonna begin to label them but none of them make me a racist. The south has always done things different from other parts of the country. Grits is a southern tradition. Most people up north don't like them and that's fine. They can have their cream of wheat.
I got no intentions of changing me to meet the approval of someone else.
This tradition of Florida's was never "steeped in racism" , the president of the university said that it had never been associated with racism on campus. Like what? The thousands of African American players who went through UF never had an issue with it and actively participated in the chant. But now we've decided that to our 21st century morals and values it's racist and it must go.
Me too - traveled the world and have experienced so many wonderful things in many cultures, but ain't nothing like some Southern traditions, foods, and lifestyle.
The most fun is sharing some of those with others who haven't experienced it. I made country fried chicken and gravy for a friendship mom in Costa Rica who had heard about Southern Fried chicken and wanted to try it (she loved it, of course), made dressing and gravy from scratch (the southern way) 200+ people from 20+ differrent cointries who wanted to try it on Thanksgiving, taught some Englishmen and Aussies about SEC football that we watched overseas in the middle of the night, tried to explain many times what a "crawdad" is, and how we used to catch them in the creek after school, made sweet tea in several countries teaching others about the finer points, took many unsuspecting people "Snipe" hunting (don't ruin it if someone doesn't know what that is), explained how in the South, "God Bless America" by Lee Greenwood is the 2nd national anthem (and yes, only the Greenwood version qualifies), told stories about how when there is no pool, we all swim in the creek, river, pond, etc (yes, our kids now still do this since we have a creek, not a pool, in the backyard), we use mason jars for jelly and our fine table ware, watermelon is better with salt, brim fins ans tails are to be eaten along with the fish, pecan picking is not a chore - besides good food, it is also great for a game of stick ball, overalls and boots are both work clothes and date night attire, the only real syrup is cane syrup, t-shirt and jeans are acceptable attire for any occasion in life 98% of the time, fishing is not just an activity - it's what's for dinner, looking at the stars on an airport runway at midnight is an honorable date night, picking your fruits and vegetables from the farm is not an outing - it's dinner prep, yes/no ma'am/sir is appropriate for you to say at any age, I am pretty sure when God sent manna from heaven, it was biscuits - and He gave us a make from scrath recipe, you don't learn to drive on a car - it's a go-cart, 4 wheeler, or tractor (or all 3) first, catching "lightening" bugs is a hobby of every child, drinking from a honeysuckle flower in between pitches in the makeshift outfield is commonplace, etc etc etc.....
That's just some of the South - and there ain't nothin' better!
The most fun is sharing some of those with others who haven't experienced it. I made country fried chicken and gravy for a friendship mom in Costa Rica who had heard about Southern Fried chicken and wanted to try it (she loved it, of course), made dressing and gravy from scratch (the southern way) 200+ people from 20+ differrent cointries who wanted to try it on Thanksgiving, taught some Englishmen and Aussies about SEC football that we watched overseas in the middle of the night, tried to explain many times what a "crawdad" is, and how we used to catch them in the creek after school, made sweet tea in several countries teaching others about the finer points, took many unsuspecting people "Snipe" hunting (don't ruin it if someone doesn't know what that is), explained how in the South, "God Bless America" by Lee Greenwood is the 2nd national anthem (and yes, only the Greenwood version qualifies), told stories about how when there is no pool, we all swim in the creek, river, pond, etc (yes, our kids now still do this since we have a creek, not a pool, in the backyard), we use mason jars for jelly and our fine table ware, watermelon is better with salt, brim fins ans tails are to be eaten along with the fish, pecan picking is not a chore - besides good food, it is also great for a game of stick ball, overalls and boots are both work clothes and date night attire, the only real syrup is cane syrup, t-shirt and jeans are acceptable attire for any occasion in life 98% of the time, fishing is not just an activity - it's what's for dinner, looking at the stars on an airport runway at midnight is an honorable date night, picking your fruits and vegetables from the farm is not an outing - it's dinner prep, yes/no ma'am/sir is appropriate for you to say at any age, I am pretty sure when God sent manna from heaven, it was biscuits - and He gave us a make from scrath recipe, you don't learn to drive on a car - it's a go-cart, 4 wheeler, or tractor (or all 3) first, catching "lightening" bugs is a hobby of every child, drinking from a honeysuckle flower in between pitches in the makeshift outfield is commonplace, etc etc etc.....
That's just some of the South - and there ain't nothin' better!
Yes.Trackdawg073 said:
This tradition of Florida's was never "steeped in racism" , the president of the university said that it had never been associated with racism on campus. Like what? The thousands of African American players who went through UF never had an issue with it and actively participated in the chant. But now we've decided that to our 21st century morals and values it's racist and it must go.
It takes time to knock down all these things. In my lifetime, in the South, we had segregation. "Thousands of African Americans" went through that system too.
No doubt some of these traditions had terrible origins and then years later it was diluted to the point where it was just a fun tradition. I get it. But after knowing its origin and you are still clinging to that tradition, well, thats a personal decision. For me, the game is what matters. Not some song or chant. Plus, the fact that 90% of the players are African American, well, thats also an issue we should be sensitive to....
Did you think I was talking about food?tdperk said:ssidedawg said:sicemdawgs77 said:ssidedawg said:
I have no problem with any of this. Too many southern traditions are steeped in racism and oppression. Its time to move forward. The game is what matters. The players and fans dont need some antiquated "tradition" or song to enjoy the sport. This is why the rest of the country looks at the South sideways.
Who cares what the rest of the country looks at the South as? Who are they to judge?
Well, a lot of people who live in the South also find some the "traditions" outdated.
Yes, it isnt our job to get their approval but we should want to be more progressive.
Well label me a problem then. I like a whole lot of the southern traditions and ways. I'm not even gonna begin to label them but none of them make me a racist. The south has always done things different from other parts of the country. Grits is a southern tradition. Most people up north don't like them and that's fine. They can have their cream of wheat.
I got no intentions of changing me to meet the approval of someone else.
You were around and old enough to remember the 50s and 60s? For some reason I thought you were younger. Dorothy Counts photo and the story was incredibly moving. It's hard to believe people acted like that not that long ago.